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  #46  
Old 03-25-2019, 03:29 PM
Sloplay Sloplay is offline
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Wow, don't know how I missed this! Just stumbled on the first post from the OP a few minutes ago. Wonderful guitar, very pretty song, well played. Had never heard it, but I started playing along just to see if I could grasp it. Gonna have to learn the words to this. Again, well played, sir.
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  #47  
Old 04-24-2019, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Sloplay View Post
Wow, don't know how I missed this! Just stumbled on the first post from the OP a few minutes ago. Wonderful guitar, very pretty song, well played. Had never heard it, but I started playing along just to see if I could grasp it. Gonna have to learn the words to this. Again, well played, sir.
Yikes, sorry, I just saw this. Been so, so busy. A very famous song written by the superb Michael Smith, who was a close friend of John Prine and Steve Goodman's during the seventies.

thanks much,
scott memmer
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  #48  
Old 04-27-2019, 09:28 AM
vintage40s vintage40s is offline
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Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
... I've never been really good at clean strumming, especially when cross-picking...
You have Goodman's Dutchman picking down note for note. It looks like you are picking upward for many of the melody notes. Is that the cross-picking? Or is it the audio not perfectly synchronized with the video?
I ask because I, too, have learned his Dutchman almost note for note, and do pick upward to catch some notes, but they are like filler, not melody. My melody notes are downward. It does not have Goodman's (and your) distinctive sound.
Maybe what I am doing is back-picking, which is an easy add-on to regular flat picking. But if cross-picking means pulling up on melody notes, it would be a whole different thing. I can't even begin to get it started.
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Last edited by vintage40s; 04-27-2019 at 06:25 PM.
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  #49  
Old 04-30-2019, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by vintage40s View Post
You have Goodman's Dutchman picking down note for note. It looks like you are picking upward for many of the melody notes. Is that the cross-picking? Or is it the audio not perfectly synchronized with the video?
I ask because I, too, have learned his Dutchman almost note for note, and do pick upward to catch some notes, but they are like filler, not melody. My melody notes are downward. It does not have Goodman's (and your) distinctive sound.
Maybe what I am doing is back-picking, which is an easy add-on to regular flat picking. But if cross-picking means pulling up on melody notes, it would be a whole different thing. I can't even begin to get it started.
Vintage, thanks for your post. You're right -- I stole that version note-not-note from Goodman and have been working on it for more than 30 years. It took forever. I think initially I was working off the record, or maybe cassette, and had no vid to see hand positions or anything, so it was all ear. And back then I had a pretty bad ear.

On the playing style and technique -- I dunno. Feel free to email me direct at charmedlifepicks @ gmail, or I'd even be happy to chat on the phone. I've been playing it so long that it's all muscle memory now, and I don't really think or ponder it much. But I would call it cross-picking. In general I don't do a lot of upward or back-stroking; I mainly just do standard down-stroke with a flat pick. The way this came about was I had the great good fortune to get referred for my very first guitar teacher to a guy who loved and was obsessed with Mississippi John Hurt. So in my first year of playing I was already playing "Candy Man" and tunes like that. Over time, I was influenced by the stylings of people like Don McClean and other artists. McClean plays with not just a thumbpick but also with metal fingerpicks (the same way he plays banjo). Eventually I found that sound too brassy and bold and, over time, got rid of all picks when playing fingerstyle, which I prefer up to the present. Somewhere in there I begin to play a flatpick as I had used a thumbpick, that back and forth motion. So, yeah, I'd call it cross-picking, if you were to visualize the path of the flatpick in the identical motion of a thumbpick.

Hope this helps. Feel free to drop a line.

All The Best,
Scott
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Last edited by Charmed Life Picks; 04-30-2019 at 12:15 PM.
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  #50  
Old 05-01-2019, 01:10 PM
vintage40s vintage40s is offline
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Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
... I stole that version note-not-note from Goodman... On the playing style and technique... I don't really think or ponder it much. But I would call it cross-picking. In general I don't do a lot of upward or back-stroking; I mainly just do standard down-stroke with a flat pick... play a flatpick as I had used a thumbpick, that back and forth motion. So, yeah, I'd call it cross-picking, if you were to visualize the path of the flatpick in the identical motion of a thumbpick...
OK, I think that you are not doing what is called cross-picking, and that your video lags the audio by a fraction of a second.
Cross-picking is continuous downward and upward picking on individual strings, shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bb7v33D3iE
The video lag in your Dutchman makes it look like notes are being picked on an upstroke, most noticeable in your break, beginning at 3:00 and ending when you say "Got it". But from what you say, the notes are actually played with normal downstrokes.

BTW, I really appreciate the clarity and pace of your Dutchman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=4PfTx2yws1E
Compared to this uncomfortably fast performance by Goodman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRedELI1owE

And back on topic, I am amazed how much better, fuller, richer your rather new Eastman sounds than my old Martin. Can some of that difference be in the recording?
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Last edited by vintage40s; 05-02-2019 at 09:20 AM.
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  #51  
Old 05-04-2019, 01:12 PM
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Vintage, sorry for the delayed response. You're probably right on the nomenclature. I call it cross-picking, but apparently what I do is called something else. Appreciate the correction.

You know, I'm probably the biggest Steve Goodman fan on the planet, but I, like you, felt he always played "The Dutchman" too spritely. It's almost like he's scared of the emotion in the song. And again, I love the guy to death.

I can't find it online, but the most beautiful version I've heard is the one Michael himself performed at the tribute memorial concert for Steve at McCormick Place in Chicago. So slow and mournful, and so perfect for the occasion. Anyway, thanks for the kind words.

On your last question, I dunno. As I've mentioned, That $850 (used) Eastman is my #1 player. My HD-28 mostly sits in the case now.

take care,
scott
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  #52  
Old 05-24-2019, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloplay View Post
Wow, don't know how I missed this! Just stumbled on the first post from the OP a few minutes ago. Wonderful guitar, very pretty song, well played. Had never heard it, but I started playing along just to see if I could grasp it. Gonna have to learn the words to this. Again, well played, sir.
Any luck? Mine was lifted almost note-for-note from Steve Goodman's version, of many years past. What a player.

PM me if you wanna chat about it.

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  #53  
Old 05-24-2019, 12:04 PM
Red_Label Red_Label is offline
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Nice playing/singing in the video OP! I've been contemplating discontinuing using pickup systems and just using my Sennheiser 935 for vocals and one of my Shure SM81s on guitar for my live work. Your video makes me believe that's doable!


I had never bought (or even played) any Eastmans until a couple of weeks ago. I've since bought Eastman mandolin, mandola, and octave mandolin. And that's got me at least looking at their guitars. I have a closet full of nice American Breedloves, Gibson, and Avalon. So I'll have to find the right Eastman to replace one of those. But I have no doubt there are plenty out there! Made-in-China is no longer a label that turns me off. I've owned a lot of very nice American and Spanish-made guitars in my life, and some of the higher-end stuff coming out of China these days takes a back seat to none but the very best single-luthier instruments.
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  #54  
Old 05-24-2019, 12:59 PM
merlin666 merlin666 is offline
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Thank you, that is some very nice playing and great sounding guitar. My luthier just became an Eastman dealer and had to get the basic required set of six guitars in stock. Now I think I will have to try one or two out next time I'm in the store.
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  #55  
Old 05-24-2019, 01:10 PM
Roccorobb Roccorobb is offline
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I got my first Eastman 3 years ago, an E10D, and just picked up an E10OM-SB. Amazing instruments I love to play just as much as my vintage D28 and Huss and Dalton TDM. I have less invested in both Eastmans together than in any one American guitar I've ever bought.
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  #56  
Old 05-24-2019, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Red_Label View Post
Nice playing/singing in the video OP! I've been contemplating discontinuing using pickup systems and just using my Sennheiser 935 for vocals and one of my Shure SM81s on guitar for my live work. Your video makes me believe that's doable!


I had never bought (or even played) any Eastmans until a couple of weeks ago. I've since bought Eastman mandolin, mandola, and octave mandolin. And that's got me at least looking at their guitars. I have a closet full of nice American Breedloves, Gibson, and Avalon. So I'll have to find the right Eastman to replace one of those. But I have no doubt there are plenty out there! Made-in-China is no longer a label that turns me off. I've owned a lot of very nice American and Spanish-made guitars in my life, and some of the higher-end stuff coming out of China these days takes a back seat to none but the very best single-luthier instruments.
Red: Do it!

If you're playing solo acoustic, there's no reason to use a pick-up. I'm a fanatic about the reproduction of wooden tone, as you can probably tell from the vid. I'm the worst tone-chaser I know. That Eastman was played into a $100 Shure SM-58. There's not a p/u on the planet that sounds as good as that cheap microphone, and I own three of the best -- Trance Audio, Baggs & Pickup the World.

The only reason to use a p/u, in my view, is when playing in an ensemble where feedback becomes a problem, or when playing with drums and electric bass and guitar. Or if the room is really funky and hard to get a decent EQ.

Case in point, we saw Riders in the Sky two nights ago and they all played directly into mics, even Ranger Doug with his Gibson archtop. Nary a pickup in sight. And most of the straight acoustic groups still go directly into a mic at the Opry, as far as I know.

Feel free to drop me a PM on this topic and we'll compare notes. I just LOVE the sound of a live mic on a wooden instrument.

BTW, in case you missed it earlier, that Eastman model I'm playing is their J-45 clone -- adi over hog. I bought that thing used for $850 and now play it far more than my HD-28. Main reason? The Martin is a heckuva strummer, but the Eastman has a lot more snap, which makes it ideal for fingerstyle. Since I do both styles when playing out, it means I can use one guitar instead of two.

Take Care,
Scott
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Last edited by Charmed Life Picks; 05-24-2019 at 06:22 PM.
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  #57  
Old 05-24-2019, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
Red: Do it!

If you're playing solo acoustic, there's no reason to use a pick-up. I'm a fanatic about the reproduction of wooden tone, as you can probably tell from the vid. I'm the worst tone-chaser I know. That Eastman was played into a $100 Shure SM-58. There's not a p/u on the planet that sounds as good as that cheap microphone, and I own three of the best -- Trance Audio, Baggs & Pickup the World.

The only reason to use a p/u, in my view, is when playing in an ensemble where feedback becomes a problem, or when playing with drums and electric bass and guitar. Or if the room is really funky and hard to get a decent EQ.

Case in point, we saw Riders in the Sky two nights ago and they all played directly into mics, even Ranger Doug with his Gibson archtop. Nary a pickup in sight. And most of the straight acoustic groups still go directly into a mic at the Opry, as far as I know.

Feel free to drop me a PM on this topic and we'll compare notes. I just LOVE the sound of a live mic on a wooden instrument.

BTW, in case you missed it earlier, that Eastman model I'm playing is their J-45 clone -- adi over hog. I bought that thing used for $850 and now play it far more than my HD-28. Main reason? The Martin is a heckuva strummer, but the Eastman has a lot more snap, which makes it ideal for fingerstyle. Since I do both styles when playing out, it means I can use one guitar instead of two.

Take Care,
Scott
Good stuff man! I had already been leaning towards live mic'ing lately, but now I'm definitely gonna do it. I do play in a trio with another acoustic and an acoustic bass. But I think I can make it work. I too have some wonderful Baggs and Fishman pickups in my acoustics. But yeah, as good as they are, they're still "electric" sounding to a degree.
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  #58  
Old 05-24-2019, 08:25 PM
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Good stuff man! I had already been leaning towards live mic'ing lately, but now I'm definitely gonna do it. I do play in a trio with another acoustic and an acoustic bass. But I think I can make it work. I too have some wonderful Baggs and Fishman pickups in my acoustics. But yeah, as good as they are, they're still "electric" sounding to a degree.
Keep me posted, would you, please? I'm really interested in this sort of thing.

It seems to me that a lot of players younger than, say, forty don't really know what an acoustic guitar sounds like without a pickup. It's really a shame.

thanks!
scott
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  #59  
Old 05-24-2019, 09:07 PM
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When I joined AGF about five years ago, I began to hear about Eastman guitars. Like anything, at first I was skeptical. But I continued to hear such marvelous buzz that at the end of 2015 I acquired my first Eastie, an E-10SS, which is their J-45 clone, Adi over Hog. I was so fortunate to buy it from a gent here on AGF who has since become a good friend.

For three years now he has been begging me to sell it back to me. No dice. It's with me for life and, Keith, you ain't in my will.

A number of you have seen this and commented about how incredible this guitar sounds. I like the purity of performing solo without a pickup. I have some of the best pickups on the market in my guitars, and none of them sound as good live as an $100 SM-58

So here is me playing a solo version of Michael Smith's legendary song, "The Dutchman."



Thanks to all of the knowledgeable members who have such a dramatic impact on my life in music. I am eternally grateful.

Would love to hear from other Eastie owners, new or old, or from those considering acquiring their first Eastman.

thanks,
scott memmer
I do not own nor have I ever played an Eastman....but after hearing your wonderful rendition of The Dutchman, they are now on my radar. Thank you for posting this Scott.
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  #60  
Old 05-25-2019, 11:34 AM
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Godfather: The pleasure is all mine. I fell for this song hook-line-and-sinker the first time I saw Goodman perform it and have pursued mastering it like madman for more than three decades. I've practiced that last run well over 10,000 times through the years and STILL can't get it right most times. Ah me.

BTW, I had never heard of Eastman till about five years ago, when I joined this forum. It turned out a good buddy of mine was selling a really clean used one. Wow wow wow. A good Eastman is, in my book, as good as any Taylor, Martin or Collings out there. I'm still Jonesing for a genuine Gibson J-45, although I can't a new one sounding or feeling any better than the Eastie. My dream is to purchase a genuine Banner J-45 (1942-1945) for myself as a retirement gift.

Thanks again for the kind words. I'm humbled that this vid has touched so many years. A song filled with such aching compassion and understanding.

scott memmer
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