Eastman Guitar Pricing...

[Pura Vida]

Stepping back a little further, Eastman increased prices when CITES kicked in. This was mostly on their Rosewood guitars, but even non-Rosewood saw an increase. This was compounded with the US/China trade war a year later, when the tariffs resulted in additional increases, as noted throughout this thread. So, depending on when the OP was looking, there have been two significant price increases, following several years of holding stable on prices, while other companies increased their prices. Ebb and flow.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Yep. Their higher pricing these days is a direct result of the increasing ugliness between China and the United States.

It would be interesting to hear from folks in the British Commonwealth countries whether they're seeing the same thing in their music stores, or if it's a special present for the US alone.


whm

Hi Wade,

Our situation 'over the pond' is a little different. We saw a big jump in the wholesale price of everything from China 4 year's ago, the day after the Brexit vote. Chinese companies price their wholesale guitar exports in USD and the GBP against the the USD fell around 12% overnight when the Brexit vote result came in and hasn't recovered. I closed Busker Guitars that month as the exchange rate fall severely reduced my profit margin and the ensuing volatility increased risk.

The EU import duty remains at 3.2% for the tariff code acoustic guitars fall under - so no change there. I'm not sure what will happen in the UK after the end of the transition period this year. If we switch to WTO rules that import duty may rise as the average WTO tariff for guitars is 7.2%. If the UK gets a free trade deal with the USA then the tariff on US made guitars could drop from 3.2% to 0% - however, the daily exchange rate and the fact retailers can openly discount (see below) is a far greater factor than tariffs on the price of a guitar to the UK consumer.

Regarding street pricing: EU regulations outlaw MAP or any other restrictive practices from being imposed by manufacturers. Retailers can advertise and sell goods at whatever price they choose and manufacturers cannot unfairly discriminate against those retailers for doing so. This is different to the US situation. Fender couldn't get their heads around this and so recently were taken to court in Europe (and lost) because they had been telling UK retailers that they could not discount Fender guitars on-line. You use to see brands like Martin, Fender and Gibson advertised with POA (Price on Application) shown in the on-line advert. Now all the actual discounted retail selling prices that the retailer will charge are listed.

Personally, I'm a little worried that when the UK starts to negotiate its own trade deals outside the EU that some of the extensive consumer rights we presently enjoy will be eroded piece by piece. Many players I have spoken to over here have been hoping that a post Brexit free trade deal with the US will bring cheaper American made guitars to our shores. However, the most we could gain is a 3.2% fall in the wholesale price. That could easily be wiped out by a small fluctuation in exchange rates or the re-introduction of MAP if that was in the small print of any US deal. And if any manufacturer (USA or China) decides to place it's UK distribution as an offshoot of its wider European distribution hub then the retail prices for those brands will rise in the UK next year.

[lowrider]

So what kind of discount can we expect on an Eastman guitar? We all know that we can get around 40% off of a Martin MAP price. How does it work with Eastman?

I'm thinking about a Eastman T386.

https://www.eastmanguitars.com/electric_thinline

It's listed on the Eastman website for $1225. Advertised by LA Guitar for $1150.

About what would it sell for?

[Monts]

Originally Posted by lowrider

So what kind of discount can we expect on an Eastman guitar? We all know that we can get around 40% off of a Martin MAP price. How does it work with Eastman?

I'm thinking about a Eastman T386.

https://www.eastmanguitars.com/electric_thinline

It's listed on the Eastman website for $1225. Advertised by LA Guitar for $1150.

About what would it sell for?

I doubt you'll get the 40% off on an Eastman.

[CoffeeFan]

Originally Posted by stevecuss

I wonder if you stumbled across their limited double top range? Not many, or any factories doing steel string double tops. Some of our favorite AGF luthiers do, but its a rare bird. Those are just over $2000 new from Eastman.

Yeah, they have one, the DT30GACE, with an MSRP of $3,195. That just seems nuts to me, even with the retail discount. There's no indication that it's not made in China...

[RP]

Originally Posted by CoffeeFan

When did Eastman's get so expensive?

I was perusing their website today and was shocked to see some prices over three grand for a Chinese made instrument. They're nice and all, but three grand?

Originally Posted by CoffeeFan

...That just seems nuts to me, even with the retail discount. There's no indication that it's not made in China...

Are you actually looking at buying an Eastman or incredulous that a Chinese-made guitar is that pricey???

[CoffeeFan]

Originally Posted by RP

Are you actually looking at buying an Eastman or incredulous that a Chinese-made guitar is that pricey???

I think "incredulous" is too strong a word.

A bit surprised, though, sure...

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by lowrider

So what kind of discount can we expect on an Eastman guitar? We all know that we can get around 40% off of a Martin MAP price. How does it work with Eastman?

I'm thinking about a Eastman T386.

https://www.eastmanguitars.com/electric_thinline

It's listed on the Eastman website for $1225. Advertised by LA Guitar for $1150.

About what would it sell for?

I owned a T386 for a while - magnificent guitar. The finish was too thin, but as has been noted, this was when Eastman was newer to the Semi Hollow world and their consistency was less....er....consistent. I believe some of their jazz boxes ship with Lollars now. Eastman is really going for it. If I wanted a 335ish guitar again, I wouldn't hesitate to look at an Eastman.

Originally Posted by CoffeeFan

Yeah, they have one, the DT30GACE, with an MSRP of $3,195. That just seems nuts to me, even with the retail discount. There's no indication that it's not made in China...

My understanding is the Double Top is a Chinese made instrument. I very recently went on an Eastman research binge, ending up in an order of an E10OM-TC coming from Ted's. It should arrive this Thurs. I was hoping to buy locally from a local small shop Eastman Dealer to support the local guys with all the COVID challenges, but none of the 3 local dealers had the TC, nor could they get it for months. So, I'm happy to then support an excellent AGF sponsor.

But I digress. One dealer had a Double Top OM. I think the tag price was $2200 or so and it probably went down a bit from there. It was excellent - not my cup of tea, not something I'd pay extra for, but an excellent sounding and looking instrument. I'm pretty sure the label indicated that it was built in China.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by RP

Are you actually looking at buying an Eastman or incredulous that a Chinese-made guitar is that pricey???

I think acoustic guitar prices are out of hand in general. Please don't jump on me and tell me "Do you know how long to learn to build, how many man hours involved" blah, blah blah" - I will not respond and I understand all that. I know full well many will disagree with me. I am cheap, and that's pretty well known by my sig.

Many Eastman guitars are still good to excellent deals - others are getting "too big for their britches" IMO. When a Chinese made guitar starts getting priced closer and closer to their American counterparts part of their appeal starts to fall away. M, T & G maintain a much higher resale % (although the market is soft for them too). When a used standard Martin in excellent shape can be had for the same $ as Eastman, Eastman will lose. With soft used sales and increases in Pac-rim goods, that's where they are heading (IMO).

[rokdog49]

If Eastman’s were made in the Czech Republic would this be a question?

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by roylor4

I think acoustic guitar prices are out of hand in general. Please don't jump on me and tell me "Do you know how long to learn to build, how many man hours involved" blah, blah blah" - I will not respond and I understand all that. I know full well many will disagree with me. I am cheap, and that's pretty well known by my sig.

Many Eastman guitars are still good to excellent deals - others are getting "too big for their britches" IMO. When a Chinese made guitar starts getting priced closer and closer to their American counterparts part of their appeal starts to fall away. M, T & G maintain a much higher resale % (although the market is soft for them too). When a used standard Martin in excellent shape can be had for the same $ as Eastman, Eastman will lose. With soft used sales and increases in Pac-rim goods, that's where they are heading (IMO).

I am not bothered by your POV and not feeling reactive, I just think you've come to some inaccurate conclusions.

I'll state up front: I'm a big fan of Martin - the company, the tone, the instruments. I am not a big fan of Gibson. I LOVE the way Gibsons look and want to get into their tone, but can't seem to. I believe all else being equal, spending on a Bourgeois/Collings/Santa Cruz etc is often worth it. I've owned those too, over the years. I regularly own high end instruments, my Mcilroy being a prime example.

Ok, so.

The Thermo Cured Eastman coming my way, new with lifetime warranty is about 1/3 the price of the equivalent Martin. It is the first new instrument I've ever bought in my life. I'm quite giddy about it. Eastman: $1300 or so. Equivalent Martin: $3400 or so. This ratio roughly works as you go down the line. The non TC sitka version, the Eastman E6OM is Eastman's answer to the Martin 00018 - a legendary guitar. Eastman: $850 before a phone call. Martin: $2400 before a phone call.

I say this because of your case that the PAC company is getting too close to the US equivalent. I simply don't think that is the case at all. I think they are still comfortably under half of what you'd pay for a US equivalent and oftentimes 1/3.

As for resale value, I searched HARD for a pre owned TC Eastman, including looking at a beauty owned by a fellow AGFer. The preowned price he was asking was very fair, based on what I was finding on reverb. I think he will comfortably get his asking price. They are selling something like 10% less than a new one. The demand for them appears such that as of now at least, Eastman's resale/lack of depreciation in the used market is the strongest I've seen. This seems to track on their more common instruments like the E6 and E8 series. They just seem to hold their value freakishly high in the used market. That is what tipped me to a new one. Sure, it may not stay this way, but it was wild to price a brand new one vs what I could get preowned and realize the savings were minimal. The pre owned was around $1200. A preowned Martin equivalent would be $2400+

It is not a comment against Martin, although I'll confess that 3 out of the last 4 Martins I bought pre owned had QC issues that left me chagrined - glue around the binding issues, separated binding issues, a separated seam (3 different guitars, 3 different issues.)

Of course, it could be the previous owners in each case neglected their instruments, it may have nothing to do with Martin, but when I got the guitar with the glue/binding issue I did some googling and sure enough, many Martins of that era had that exact issue.

Again, this coming from a Martin fan. I don't have a dog in the 'where it was built' and heritage argument. I don't believe an Eastman sounds like a Martin, nor should it. But the Eastmans I have played so far sound so, so good and their fit and finish is impeccable. I expect great things out of the TC I'm about to get and can't believe the good value. I expect I'll never sell it. If, by some highly unlikely chance, I want to sell the Eastman in the next couple of years, its likely I'll get 90% back from what I paid new. Unheard of.

[JERZEY]

If you want an Eastman get it very soon. Things are getting really bad in China, ask if they could get worse. Things are all ready in motion to more or less cut China out of the USD inside of 4 years.

[Spineycat]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

If Eastman’s were made in the Czech Republic would this be a question?

They might be the same quality as Furch if they were (which they are not).

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by stevecuss

I am not bothered by your POV and not feeling reactive, I just think you've come to some inaccurate conclusions.

I'll state up front: I'm a big fan of Martin - the company, the tone, the instruments. I am not a big fan of Gibson. I LOVE the way Gibsons look and want to get into their tone, but can't seem to. I believe all else being equal, spending on a Bourgeois/Collings/Santa Cruz etc is often worth it. I've owned those too, over the years. I regularly own high end instruments, my Mcilroy being a prime example.

Ok, so.

The Thermo Cured Eastman coming my way, new with lifetime warranty is about 1/3 the price of the equivalent Martin. It is the first new instrument I've ever bought in my life. I'm quite giddy about it. Eastman: $1300 or so. Equivalent Martin: $3400 or so. This ratio roughly works as you go down the line. The non TC sitka version, the Eastman E6OM is Eastman's answer to the Martin 00018 - a legendary guitar. Eastman: $850 before a phone call. Martin: $2400 before a phone call.

As is my custom, I searched HARD for a pre owned TC Eastman, including looking at a beauty owned by a fellow AGFer. The preowned price he was asking was very fair, based on what I was finding on reverb. I think he will comfortably get his asking price. They are selling something like 10% less than a new one. The demand for them appears such that as of now at least, Eastman's resale/lack of depreciation in the used market is the strongest I've seen. This seems to track on their more common instruments like the E6 and E8 series. They just seem to hold their value freakishly high in the used market. That is what tipped me to a new one. Sure, it may not stay this way, but it was wild to price a brand new one vs what I could get preowned and realize the savings were minimal.

It is not a comment against Martin, although I'll confess that 3 out of the last 4 Martins I bought pre owned had QC issues that left me chagrined - glue around the binding issues, separated binding issues, a separated seam (3 different guitars, 3 different issues.)

Of course, it could be the previous owners in each case neglected their instruments, it may have nothing to do with Martin, but when I got the guitar with the glue/binding issue I did some googling and sure enough, many Martins of that era had that exact issue.

Again, this coming from a Martin fan. I don't have a dog in the 'where it was built' and heritage argument. I don't believe an Eastman sounds like a Martin, nor should it. But the Eastmans I have played so far sound so, so good and their fit and finish is impeccable. I expect great things out of the TC I'm about to get and can't believe the good value. I expect I'll never sell it. If, by some highly unlikely chance, I want to sell the Eastman in the next couple of years, its likely I'll get 90% back from what I paid new. Unheard of.

Hi Steve,

I appreciate your thoughts and input but I would also like to offer a counterpoint. I have owned 4 Eastmans. 2 sounded and played very good, two were dogs. 3 of the 4 had irregular and improperly spec'ed string widths at the nut. The one that didn't had a severely cracked and crazed finish (I bought it new this way, as it was a steal and aesthetics don't concern me).

The last one I sold was my E6OM. Sounded very good, but I actually preferred the string spacing to my B-stock Ibanez 240 and it sounds 95% as good. I had both for several years, so not a snap decision, a judgement call and as much about playability as tone. I had an AC422 that was superb, but had a slightly twisted neck, minor intonation issues and too big for me - so I sold it.

I also had an AC122 (the finish on the neck wasn't cured properly and I had to remove it, and stain it just to get rid of it). The tone was awful and the intonation was way off. I bought this one used and online, so, Caveat Emptor, I guess.

I also owned an OM2 (can't remember the whole designation), but it was a lower priced all solid Sapele OM. Advertised as a 1.75" nut - it was 11/16ths. This one was my own fault, bought it and thought I would get accustomed to it. never did. It's tone was dull and muted and far inferior to my Ibanez AC240.

So, you see, I have been very open to the Eastman brand and have often defended them here. I have also found them wanting more often than not.

I have heard that they have stepped up their game, and that may well be true. I would not hesitate to buy a good one now if I could play it first.. I would be pretty hesitant to buy online and only from a dealer with a generous return policy.

If you buy one, I strongly recommend play before pay.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Spineycat

They might be the same quality as Furch if they were (which they are not).

That’s your opinion and it may or may not be the case.
That wasn’t my point anyway.
Let me put it into a similar context.
“Why would I pay $3000 for a guitar made in the Czech Republic when I could buy a really nice Martin for less right here?” Furch seems a bit pricey for a guitar made outside the U.S.
Do you see how that sounds?