Guitars That Are "Over-Humidified"

[Dreadnought Guy]

My 3 Best Acoustics (Martin D-42, Gibson CS Hummingbird (Koa), Gibson J-200) have developed some issues. A few years ago, we moved from the NYC area to the Los Angeles area.

I will admit I did not play the acoustics often since the move, but recently I have been.

My findings:

J-200 -- High action (compared to what it was on the East Coast) past the 5th getting worse from 8th-10th positions. Otherwise, it still sounds like a cannon (a nice one!).

D-42 -- Sounds lifeless; Changed the strings of course, but no significant difference. Action feels higher (compared to what it was on the East Coast).

CS Hummingbird - This one actually sounds really great, but the action is a "bit" higher past the 7th fret (compared to what it was on the East Coast).

I do have a hygrometer on my desk in that room, but no dehumidifier.

I've done 2 things so far (based on a fellow player's advice):

Bought a bag of silica gel packs (10 gram). Placed a #10 envelope across the sound hole with 2 packs close to the 1st and 6th strings.

Bought a meter with a wand: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TQMOGUS/r

Got it 2 days ago. When I stick the probe into the sound hole, it's showing "Normal" RH (46%, 50%, 48%).

The silica packs didn't do much, although I had them in for only 2 days so far.

My question to forum members: What to do next?

I don't know any good repair guys out here. Would anyone know of a highly skilled acoustic guy in LA or Ventura Counties?

[FoxHound4690]

Are you playing your guitars in a LARGER environment to what you previously were? it sounds like you could just be playing in a room that itself has different acoustics than where you previously were....

The climate may be different but being that it's summer over there in the U.S. right now there is a good chance that during their journey to LA they might have been subjected to some big temperature fluctuations.... these will affect your acoustic tones if the guitars have sucked up some moisture as you are obviously aware but if you have a decent humidifying device you should be able to get them back to their RH fairly easily. as long as there's no damage or splits in the wood I wouldn't stress too hard about it...

I have a M.U.D. (Multi-Utility Dessicant) that I keep in my Maton case and I have never heard any significant changed in my Maton's tone (only when i've changed strings).

[Mandobart]

Are you sure the humidity is higher in LA than it was in NYC? That goes against my understanding of each area's climate.

Did you monitor and control the humidity of your guitars back in NYC , and now the same hygrometer is telling you the relative humidity is now higher?

I've lived in the western US (Pacific coast and rockies) most of my life with brief military time in the Midwest and southeast. I've always found the West to be much drier.

The RH values you report are not what I consider high. All my instruments (20 assorted fiddles, mandolins, banjos and guitars) are kept in a large insulated, temperature-controlled and humidified basement room in my house in the usually arid eastern Washington shrub steppe. The RH varies from a low around 35% to a high around 60% in the room. Temperature varies from 68 F to 72 F. I play all the instruments frequently and never notice much of a change in action or tone due to temperature or RH.

I would bet the change in tone perception is more attributable to room size and dimension, ceiling height, furniture, wall and floor coverings, window treatment, etc. What do your guitars sound like when you play them outside in LA compared to when you did in NYC?

[Scotso]

My understanding is that most builders try to maintain humidity at 45-50% in workspaces. If that is true, it would be highly doubtful that you are "over" humidified given your numbers. It has to be some other issue.

[kkrell]

After a few years, I'd think they'd be accomodated to Los Angeles by now. Depends of course on whether you keep them out, or in cases. My house conditions swing from heat to A/C, and the outside conditions are generally dry, but certainly shift a lot in both temperature & humidity. I always keep instruments in cases, and find I have to keep the case humidifiers filled. Need to keep my wood flutes humidified, too. Let's see, current room RH @5am is 47% @ 68.7 degrees F.

It's possible unwelcome changes may have taken place in your instruments, so no harm in having them looked at.

For acoustic luthiers/repair in Los Angeles, I'd suggest you'd get good results from David Neely (across from Guitar Center Hollywood - https://neelyguitars.com/repairs-and-restorations/ ), or Fren Asken (Asken Guitars - https://www.askenguitars.com/workshop ). I think Fren's shop may be temporarily closed due to the pandemic.

Both of the above work on acoustic & electrics.

[UncleJesse]

I tried two 5g packs of silica in the case to remove moisture once and my case humidity dove into the 30% within an hour. It surprised me how fast it pulled moisture out of the air. I'm kind of shocked by how it doesn't seem to be working for you.

[kkrell]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

I would bet the change in tone perception is more attributable to room size and dimension, ceiling height, furniture, wall and floor coverings, window treatment, etc.

Other than the D-42, the OP's issue isn't really tone. I'm concerned about the action feeling high. Maybe that's a function of neck relief under Los Angeles weather conditions, or maybe something structural that needs to be addressed.

[ljguitar]

Hi Dreadnought Guy…

First of all, HELLO AND WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

I doubt your action problem is related to the humidity. The humidity levels you sited sound normal to only a bit high. High is in the 80-90% region, not 50-60% (Hong Kong type humidity). Also measuring humidity is an every-day and indoor activity.

To me when humidity is high, my guitars sound like they are stuffed with socks compared to my normal (which I maintain at around 40%).

A good setup person can fix that for you, and if they follow good protocol they will adjust nut depth, neck camber (truss rod), and lastly the saddle.

[lowrider]

I agree that LA should be dryer than NYC

But if your guitars are over humified go to the store and pick up a box of uncooked rice and some brown paper lunch bags.

Put the rice in the bag, loosen the strings on the guitar and put the bag in the sound hole. Put the guitar back in the case and close the case.

Check it after 24 hours. If the guitar is over humidified, the rice will feel damp. If it's really wet, change out the rice and keep doing this until you find it dry.

If you are over humidified, it's probably coming from inside your house. You'll have to figure out where it's coming from.

[imc2111]

You could be in an area of LA that has higher humidity. My house is more humid than some other houses in my area. I deal with 65-80% humidity as the norm.

Dealing with high humidity is a bit complicated. I believe that the reverse problem, managing dryness is easier. I’ve tried so many things and the best solution has been to use water proof cases for my acoustic guitars plus rechargeable dehumidifiers inside the case. Packs of silica won’t do much. I have a couple of Eva drys in my guitar cases. Haven’t had a single issue since I’ve been using this approach. Tone and action went back to normal after I implemented this system.

[jaymarsch]

There are a lot of micro climates on the West Coast and LA covers a lot of territory so humidity could be a factor. I purchased a guitar from a shop that is a 45 minute drive to the east of me here in Northern California. I experienced exactly what you are describing. I let the guitar settle for a month or so and then took it to the guy who made it and he did a set up on it. No problems after that.

Best,
Jayne

[Dreadnought Guy]

Thanks for all the replies! To answer some questions:

Until recently, I'll admit to being a bit lax in monitoring RH levels aside from using a room hygrometer. Readings in the room vary (going from memory) from a high of 63 to as low as 39.

imc2111 - I'm curious which Eva drys you use in your cases? How many days before things got back to normal? Sounds like you leave them in all the time.

[Rosewood99]

My house averages 63% humidity for most months of the year and I've never had a problem with any of my guitars at that range. Once it gets over 70% is when It starts to sound dull.

[imc2111]

Originally Posted by Dreadnought Guy

Thanks for all the replies! To answer some questions:

Until recently, I'll admit to being a bit lax in monitoring RH levels aside from using a room hygrometer. Readings in the room vary (going from memory) from a high of 63 to as low as 39.

imc2111 - I'm curious which Eva drys you use in your cases? How many days before things got back to normal? Sounds like you leave them in all the time.

I use the 333 Eva Dry model. And leave them in all the time. Took me about a week to get the moisture out with this method, but my guitars were very over humidified.

[imc2111]

Also I’ve tried using the Eva drys in a regular case, but they didn’t do much for my guitars and were full of moisture in a matter of 4-5 days vs weeks or months when using a waterproof case.