Transposing from standard downwards

[TBman]

I have a short tune I composed in standard, but I have a feeling if I drop the tuning down and transposed it, there may be room for further embellishments. What criteria do you use to transpose? Is it an educated guess?

[pieterh]

Not sure exactly what you mean. If you are dropping the tuning but still playing in the same key it isn’t really transposing though tablature (for example) would show different fingerings but notation would be the same. And vice versa of course, where the fingering stays the same but you are now playing in another key.

If by tuning down you mean to change the actual key and fingering then I find minor third changes can be fun: a song in Eb with capo at the 3rd fret in normal tuning and using shapes based on the key of C (C shape plays Eb, G plays Bb, Dm plays Fm and so on). The same would work I think for detuning - if your tune is in F for example then dropping a whole step can give interesting fingering options based around open G chords etc. One of my favourite voicings is a sort of Dm played as if it was D major but played at the fifth fret (instead of 2nd) with or without the top E string open.

Similarly I find some interesting options by putting capo at the 2nd fret and playing D shape for E and so on. It really depends on the piece or song, and if I am playing solo or with others - if I am okaying with a bass player for example then I am much more likely to capo up rather than time down.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by pieterh

Not sure exactly what you mean. If you are dropping the tuning but still playing in the same key it isn’t really transposing though tablature (for example) would show different fingerings but notation would be the same. And vice versa of course, where the fingering stays the same but you are now playing in another key.

If by tuning down you mean to change the actual key and fingering then I find minor third changes can be fun: a song in Eb with capo at the 3rd fret in normal tuning and using shapes based on the key of C (C shape plays Eb, G plays Bb, Dm plays Fm and so on). The same would work I think for detuning - if your tune is in F for example then dropping a whole step can give interesting fingering options based around open G chords etc. One of my favourite voicings is a sort of Dm played as if it was D major but played at the fifth fret (instead of 2nd) with or without the top E string open.

Similarly I find some interesting options by putting capo at the 2nd fret and playing D shape for E and so on. It really depends on the piece or song, and if I am playing solo or with others - if I am okaying with a bass player for example then I am much more likely to capo up rather than time down.

Transposing down to the minor third gave me a great starting point. (It's so easy in Guitar Pro its like cheating, lol).

Thank you.

[Nailpicker]

Originally Posted by TBman

I have a short tune I composed in standard, but I have a feeling if I drop the tuning down and transposed it, there may be room for further embellishments. What criteria do you use to transpose? Is it an educated guess?

I'm likely not understanding your post, but I don't understand why transposing to a different key would make room for further embellishments. I play some songs in different keys and the embellishments are essentially the same,,just in a different key. Like I said, I likely don't understand your point. But your post intrigued me nonetheless, probably because I don't understand
So on second thought, just ignore my post

[Big Band Guitar]

I don't understand what "composed in standard" means.

[mr. beaumont]

So, as others have mentioned, I'm a bit confused too...

I assume you're not talking about transposing, but rather playing the tune in the same key, but in a lowered tuning, so you're playing in different positions? Like you wrote the tune in C, but if you tune down a whole step, you could play in C but the C chord shape is now what a D chord would be in standard?..could work, I suppose. Every open position chord has its generic guitar player embellishments that go along with it...

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

So, as others have mentioned, I'm a bit confused too...

I assume you're not talking about transposing, but rather playing the tune in the same key, but in a lowered tuning, so you're playing in different positions? Like you wrote the tune in C, but if you tune down a whole step, you could play in C but the C chord shape is now what a D chord would be in standard?..could work, I suppose. Every open position chord has its generic guitar player embellishments that go along with it...

Did you mean B flat?

[Pitar]

There's standard tuning (EADgbe) and then there's concert pitch.

A key change, or using different chords that represent the same progression, will often avail the player easier finger placements and opportunities to color the melody. I think this is what the OP means and I agree with him. I play by ear and once I find a progression for a melody I will choose the chords that best suit ease of play and coloring. I've always done that.

In the rather limiting confines of jamming with someone, if they have learned a piece in a particular key and I've learned it in another, one of us needs to switch if the jam is to be successful. More times than not my key is considered incorrect by the other guy because he learned it from published sheet music and stands by it as correct. There is no correct or incorrect because the progression is the same regardless of the key. Usually, I will change to the other guy's key for the music being played and be done with it.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Pitar

There's standard tuning (EADgbe) and then there's concert pitch.

A key change, or using different chords that represent the same progression, will often avail the player easier finger placements and opportunities to color the melody. I think this is what the OP means and I agree with him. I play by ear and once I find a progression for a melody I will choose the chords that best suit ease of play and coloring. I've always done that.

Exactly Pitar. I'm wondering if an alternative tuning with use of more open strings and a lower register for a melody might be better. I'll have to experiment.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by TBman

Exactly Pitar. I'm wondering if an alternative tuning with use of more open strings and a lower register for a melody might be better. I'll have to experiment.

TB for a really unique sound in a lower register try C add 2 tuning

C-G-C-G-C- D you can play entire chord progressions with one or two fingers

Here is where I first heard the tuning

[TBman]

Originally Posted by KevWind

TB for a really unique sound in a lower register try C add 2 tuning

C-G-C-G-C- D you can play entire chord progressions with one or two fingers

Here is where I first heard the tuning

I like that tuning. I'm currently working on a favorite, Broken Mist, by Al Petteway in that tuning and have a guitar in it. Good idea, I'll try it.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by TBman

I have a short tune I composed in standard, but I have a feeling if I drop the tuning down and transposed it, there may be room for further embellishments. What criteria do you use to transpose? Is it an educated guess?

Hi Barry…

I frequently try originals in several tunings or keys just to see what pluses and detracting things occur.

I have successfully ported some CGCGCD and DADGAD tuning songs to a cut capo just to avoid a total re-tune when playing live. I do have to alter some parts of it, but they are minimal, and the end results have been good.

And sometimes I'll take a song in key of C down to A or G just to see how it affects the voicing of the chords, and runs.

It's kind of fun to try them in several keys. In some cases, it has led to a final verse being transposed when the song is played live.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by Wyllys

Did you mean B flat?

No, I'm talking about keeping the piece in C. So let's say the OP wrote a tune in C, let's keep it simple, say the chords were C, F, and G7.

So if you tune down a whole step, the chord that used to be "D" will now be a "C" chord. So shape wise, his chords will be "D," "G," and "A7." But the pitches will be C, F, and G.

This would allow for a different set of common "embellishments" on each chord than playing in standard tuning would.