Martin DCPA4 vs Takamine EF341SC?

[ii Cybershot ii]

Personally never played a Tak I've liked. That Martin DCPA4 is a great guitar. If you don't like the UST you can have a tech swap for something else, like a Baggs Anthem, and solder the Anthem to the built in battery compartment! Then you'd have the best guitar for sure.

[JackB1]

Sorry but I'm not looking to do that.

Originally Posted by ii Cybershot ii

Personally never played a Tak I've liked. That Martin DCPA4 is a great guitar. If you don't like the UST you can have a tech swap for something else, like a Baggs Anthem, and solder the Anthem to the built in battery compartment! Then you'd have the best guitar for sure.

[GHS]

Let me start by saying I own a Martin D-28 built in 1990, and a Takamine EF340stt built in 2016. Cannot say one is "better" than the other. Martin has 1 11/16 neck, love it for bluegrass tunes and suits my voice real nice. Takamine has 1 3/4 neck, spruce top and solid mahogany back and sides. Pretty much the same specs as a Martin D-18 all around. Nice p/u system, strums great, massive tone, fingerpicks nice too, but does not match my voice like the D-28 or Yamaha FG-730s do ( very similar sounding guitars). I put L R Baggs Lyric systems in bot the Martin and Yamaha and they work just fine thru amps. Guess you need to see what suits your voice.

[jp2558]

I agree with Noledog regarding Tak electronics. They are arguably legit competitors with Anthem and Fishman. And if they are good enough for the Eagles, whose live sound is paramount to their reputation, they are certainly good enough for the masses.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by GHS

Let me start by saying I own a Martin D-28 built in 1990, and a Takamine EF340stt built in 2016. Cannot say one is "better" than the other. Martin has 1 11/16 neck, love it for bluegrass tunes and suits my voice real nice. Takamine has 1 3/4 neck, spruce top and solid mahogany back and sides. Pretty much the same specs as a Martin D-18 all around. Nice p/u system, strums great, massive tone, fingerpicks nice too, but does not match my voice like the D-28 or Yamaha FG-730s do ( very similar sounding guitars). I put L R Baggs Lyric systems in bot the Martin and Yamaha and they work just fine thru amps. Guess you need to see what suits your voice.

How does a certain guitar suit a voice or not?

[noledog]

Originally Posted by ii Cybershot ii

Personally never played a Tak I've liked. That Martin DCPA4 is a great guitar. If you don't like the UST you can have a tech swap for something else, like a Baggs Anthem, and solder the Anthem to the built in battery compartment! Then you'd have the best guitar for sure.

* As a full-time performer who uses both MIJ Pro Series and Martin Standards, I like both, yet I can unequivocally say that the Palathetic system that Takamine designed and employs out performs the Anthem sonically and does not affect the unplugged tone like the Anthem's Element UST. The Anthem does sound very nice and benefits further with some outboard gear like a Platinum Pro or Venue, but it's not as good plug n play as the Tak and it's three interchangeable preamps imo. While I agree Cybershot that the Martin DCPA4 is a fine guitar, putting in an Anthem is not something I would recommend for having the "best guitar for sure".

** I wonder Cyber, have you ever truly auditioned a MIJ Pro Series Takamine on stage or thru a decent rig for any length of time? I don't question your subjective preferences in terms of tone, it's just that I work with many, many pros over many years of performing, recording etc and never came across any who did not think the Takamine Palathetic system was exceptional...and they were players that used Taks, Martins, Taylors, Breedloves, Gibsons and Alvarez too with many of the systems mentioned here as well as others.

Originally Posted by GHS

Let me start by saying I own a Martin D-28 built in 1990, and a Takamine EF340stt built in 2016. Cannot say one is "better" than the other. Martin has 1 11/16 neck, love it for bluegrass tunes and suits my voice real nice. Takamine has 1 3/4 neck, spruce top and solid mahogany back and sides. Pretty much the same specs as a Martin D-18 all around. Nice p/u system, strums great, massive tone, fingerpicks nice too, but does not match my voice like the D-28 or Yamaha FG-730s do ( very similar sounding guitars). I put L R Baggs Lyric systems in bot the Martin and Yamaha and they work just fine thru amps. Guess you need to see what suits your voice.

Originally Posted by JackB1

How does a certain guitar suit a voice or not?

* I can appreciate what GHS is saying here. He finds that the more scooped midrange of his rosewood dread affords him the sonic space or pocket that his particular voice sits in nicely without competing. However, I think that translates more in the unplugged mode vs the amplified due to the ability to eq the guitar to your preference.

** The Lyric is a very natural sounding system/mic, however it does need outboard eq'ing and is prone to feedback in higher volume settings. But in a quieter application with the right outboard eq and feedback buster, the Lyric can sound very pretty, organic and natural.

Originally Posted by jp2558

I agree with Noledog regarding Tak electronics. They are arguably legit competitors with Anthem and Fishman. And if they are good enough for the Eagles, whose live sound is paramount to their reputation, they are certainly good enough for the masses.

+1 JP! ...having used many of these I find the Tak to edge most out for what I do as a solo performer. The Fishman F1Aura Plus is a very close second and is in fact a bit more natural then the Tak system. However, the Tak Palathetic design senses body percussive tones, whereas the Fishman does not and the Fishman can be brittle when pushed unless you add some compression...and the tradeoff favors the Tak for what I do. In addition the Fishman Matrix UST does not affect the unplugged tone like the Baggs Element UST which does cause some degradation.

*** It comes down what works well for your application. All the aforementioned systems are of good quality and I've heard many of my friends and players use them all successfully. After a lot of trial and error, $$$, stage experience thru a variety of applications, I found the MIJ Takamine Palathetic system and their three interchangeable preamps to work well for me, and found many others who experience the same who perform here locally and on the road. Ya gotta plug in and give 'em a go and then you'll know!

[meb]

I have learned a lot about Tak's in this thread, but I am still confused with
their product offerings. If someone is looking for a used Tak to get the
very good live sound, should we focus on the various preamps, i.e. CTP-3
Cooltube, the CT4B ii, etc,,,, Must it have the Palethetic pickup? is
it something else? Are there preamps, pickups or models to avoid?
Is there a sweet spot regarding the electronics?

Thanks, Michael

[JackB1]

Yes for best live sound the only thing that matters is the pickup system, so for whatever model you are looking at, make sure you find out which pickup system is in it. Most of their >$1,000 models have excellent electronics.

Originally Posted by meb

I have learned a lot about Tak's in this thread, but I am still confused with
their product offerings. If someone is looking for a used Tak to get the
very good live sound, should we focus on the various preamps, i.e. CTP-3
Cooltube, the CT4B ii, etc,,,, Must it have the Palethetic pickup? is
it something else? Are there preamps, pickups or models to avoid?
Is there a sweet spot regarding the electronics?

Thanks, Michael

[noledog]

Originally Posted by meb

I have learned a lot about Tak's in this thread, but I am still confused with
their product offerings. If someone is looking for a used Tak to get the
very good live sound, should we focus on the various preamps, i.e. CTP-3
Cooltube, the CT4B ii, etc,,,, Must it have the Palethetic pickup? is
it something else? Are there preamps, pickups or models to avoid?
Is there a sweet spot regarding the electronics?

Thanks, Michael

Hi Michael,

* All of the MIJ models have the Palathetic pickup, the Korean made G series does not, it's a simple UST.

** The three interchangeable preamps only work and fit in the MIJ models for which they are designed for. I've had all three; the CT4BII, CTP-2&3, CT4DX...they all sound excellent and you can purchase them separately if your MIJ model doesn't have the one you want and easily swap them out.

*** The CT4BII is the most stage friendly in that it's the easiest to use, longest 9v battery life and sounds wonderful...after using all them, I'm back to using this preamp.

The Cooltube CTP-2,3 (I've had both versions) sound really good, have tons of warmth and are great for recording. They also offer more precise midrange tone shaping as well as the option to add in a second source like the Triax mag pickup...I tried the Baggs M80 which looks identical, but internally the Triax is retweaked frequency wise a bit, lots of tonal options here! The down side to the Cooltube is the weight and short battery life of the 4 AA batteries, I used rechargeables. I still keep my Cooltube as a backup or for certain applications like recording.

The CT4DX has the most eq, tone shaping and headroom of the three. It also has second source capability and uses two 9v batteries. It sounds fantastic, but it's heavier, eats batteries too and some may find the many dials and sliders overwhelming as far as being stage friendly when making quick adjustments...I wish I still had one of these.

**** It DOES matter which model, wood combination, body size, and finish you get; as they all are contributing factors to the amplified tone. I have found for my style that the cedar over sapeale, with satin finish works best in either the OM or NEX body. I've owned the small FX, OM, NEX, and DREAD with both satin and gloss finishes as well as both cedar and spruce tops...solid of course. Whatever combination works for you is something you have to experiment to find YOUR sweet spot....I can detail my personal findings if you want to know further.

I have a ton of experience with Takamine and know their product line well as I use them professionally... I hope this answers some of your questions Michael and if I may be of further assistance, please don't hesitate to ask.

eric

[JackB1]

Hey Noledog...you seem very knowledgeable.. question for you.
I have the EF341SC. SHould I leave the EQ on the guitar flat and then use the EQ on my amp/board or vice versa or a combo of both. This always confuses me. Also, how high should I leave the volume on my guitar?

[noledog]

Originally Posted by JackB1

Hey Noledog...you seem very knowledgeable.. question for you.
I have the EF341SC. SHould I leave the EQ on the guitar flat and then use the EQ on my amp/board or vice versa or a combo of both. This always confuses me. Also, how high should I leave the volume on my guitar?

Hi Jack,

1.) I assume you have the CT4BII preamp, so I would set them at flat/center détente and set your amp to get a good eq'd tone first; then that allows you to fine tune on stage a few db either way on each freq.

2.) Volume wise I would set on preamp at 25% to start, then on the amp dial in a comfortable level to the room your playing in. Then raise the preamp to 50% and see if that is good. If too loud then back off the amp master a bit and leave preamp at 50%. This allows you a bit of headroom for solos and/or if the room noise gets louder( as most bars and venues do that I play in) and you can inch it up on stage.

*** I've got it down to a science both with eq and volume. I played 28+ different venues last year and each has it's own unique acoustic properties. I have general settings that I have marked on my amps that I set and generally set my CT4BII with bass at 3/4, mids at 1/4, and highs at about 1/2. After sound testing I adjust amp first then like I said fine tune the preamp on stage. Once you do it a lot at different venues you'll get a feel and dialing in becomes quick and easy with these preamps. Close your eyes and use your ears to dial in slowly starting with your low end on your amp. Once you have a general setting that works most of time, get a small sharpie and mark your amp settings. That's how I set up my three Loudbox amps...btw where you stand in relation to your amp on stage is also important, especially in regards to feedback.

eric

[JackB1]

Thanks. Last Fri was my first gig with my EF341SC and I had some high freq feedback issues, but I'm not sure if that was from the vocal mic or the guitar. I had no time to experiment on stage and was just winging it. I use a Fishman SA220 for both guitar and vocals.

Only negative about the EF341SC is that the tuner won't allow me to tune 1/2 step down.

Originally Posted by noledog

Hi Jack,

1.) I assume you have the CT4BII preamp, so I would set them at flat/center détente and set your amp to get a good eq'd tone first; then that allows you to fine tune on stage a few db either way on each freq.

2.) Volume wise I would set on preamp at 25% to start, then on the amp dial in a comfortable level to the room your playing in. Then raise the preamp to 50% and see if that is good. If too loud then back off the amp master a bit and leave preamp at 50%. This allows you a bit of headroom for solos and/or if the room noise gets louder( as most bars and venues do that I play in) and you can inch it up on stage.

*** I've got it down to a science both with eq and volume. I played 28+ different venues last year and each has it's own unique acoustic properties. I have general settings that I have marked on my amps that I set and generally set my CT4BII with bass at 3/4, mids at 1/4, and highs at about 1/2. After sound testing I adjust amp first then like I said fine tune the preamp on stage. Once you do it a lot at different venues you'll get a feel and dialing in becomes quick and easy with these preamps. Close your eyes and use your ears to dial in slowly starting with your low end on your amp. Once you have a general setting that works most of time, get a small sharpie and mark your amp settings. That's how I set up my three Loudbox amps...btw where you stand in relation to your amp on stage is also important, especially in regards to feedback.

eric

[noledog]

Originally Posted by JackB1

Thanks. Last Fri was my first gig with my EF341SC and I had some high freq feedback issues, but I'm not sure if that was from the vocal mic or the guitar. I had no time to experiment on stage and was just winging it. I use a Fishman SA220 for both guitar and vocals.

Only negative about the EF341SC is that the tuner won't allow me to tune 1/2 step down.

All you have to do is look at the tuner when you tune your E the lights will show a perfect D# and so forth... G# C# F# A# D# very easy to get used to. As far as feedback, turn guitar off to isolate if it's your vocal mic or not and visa versa.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by noledog

All you have to do is look at the tuner when you tune your E the lights will show a perfect D# and so forth... G# C# F# A# D# very easy to get used to. As far as feedback, turn guitar off to isolate if it's your vocal mic or not and visa versa.

My tuner doesn't show a perfect D#. Do you have a 341?

[noledog]

Originally Posted by JackB1

My tuner doesn't show a perfect D#. Do you have a 341?

Jack your guitar should have a CT4BII preamp...hit the low E and the tuner will light up the D light and the # sign, tune either up or down according to the arrow until the the green circle in center glows while the D & # light as well...boom your in tune a half step down.