Condenser guitar mic into TCH Play Acoustic?

[HeyMikey]

Is anyone here using a condenser guitar mic (clip-on or stand) into a TC Helicon Play Acoustic? If so, how to you have it set-up? Do you need separate phantom power for the Guitar-In side, even with the Vocal side set to condenser mic? I just can't seem to figure it out. I assumed the PA phantom power supplied both inputs, but it doesn't seem so - unless my set up is wrong.

[Chickee]

HeyMikey,
Phantom power is only on XLR(mic)input.

[YamahaGuy]

Yeah you'd need something like the Art Tube Pre

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...rophone-preamp

where it has phantom for your guitar mic, and you can go out from it's 1/4" to the TCH's guitar in.

[Marty C]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

Yeah you'd need something like the Art Tube Pre

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...rophone-preamp

where it has phantom for your guitar mic, and you can go out from it's 1/4" to the TCH's guitar in.

Wonder how it would work with something like the Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina? Running the mic through the mic channel and allowing it to pick up the guitar and vocal, just as most bluegrass, flat pickers do.

[YamahaGuy]

Originally Posted by Marty C

Wonder how it would work with something like the Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina? Running the mic through the mic channel and allowing it to pick up the guitar and vocal, just as most bluegrass, flat pickers do.

I thought about trying it just to experiment. Without a bunch of effects I think it would be ok (reverb, maybe delay, and doubling) but with harmonies I bet things would get weird.

[MarkF_48]

I can sort of envision a battery powered condenser mic such as the AKG C1000B or the similar RODE NT3 mic connected to the INST input using an XLR to 1/4"TS matching transformer adapter. The adapter to better match the input impedance of the instrument input and also to convert the balanced mic connection to unbalanced.

[HeyMikey]

Thanks folks. Yeah, so the root problem, as Chickee said, was that the TCH engineers in their divine wisdom decided to only provide phantom power to the Vocal In but not the Guitar In. Seriously? Apparently they didn't think anyone would ever want to use a condenser mic for the guitar as well. Nothing in the user manual or web that I could find about it. I had to find out the hard way with a lot of trial and error. Errrrrrrr.

So I'm pretty much doing what you've collectively described with additional power and a transformer. This all came about because of a new ATM350GL clamp-on that I picked up. Its like a DPA 4099 only less expensive, standard XLR connections and their new guitar clamp mechanism is way better. Its rock solid.

I've got the 350 mic XLR > into a cheap Neewer 48v phantom power supply > XLR out into a Shure A85F XLR-1/4 Transformer > into the Play Guitar-In > XLR out to a Fishman Artist.

It is very kludgy and chord heavy since I have the Play raised up on a vocal stand shelf, and the power supplies on the floor.

As for the sound the ATM350 ... it is wonderful! Absolutely terrific natural sound. My only issue now is a spot of excess low end resonance and feedback on any kind of gain/volume. That's partly because I'm in a very confined space and the amp is very close to my side, but its definitely also the mic.

The Fishman can EQ and notch out some of the feedback, but not all. I've got to see what I can tweak on the Play Acoustic but ultimately I will need an additional EQ pedal with really good notch and feedback filter control.

I don't want to spend a fortune, I'd like to stay under $200. Right now I'm leaning towards the LR Baggs Align EQ Preamp. Any thoughts on that?

[HeyMikey]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

Yeah you'd need something like the Art Tube Pre

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...rophone-preamp

where it has phantom for your guitar mic, and you can go out from it's 1/4" to the TCH's guitar in.

I like the look of that YamahaGuy! The 1/4 out will eliminate the need for the XLR-1/4 transformer which is awkward. I see that GC has it for about $38. Hmmm. Update: That price is for a used unit. Need to look around, but I like this idea.

[Per Burström]

I believe the Behringer Tube Ultragain MIC100 is pretty similar to the Art Tube Pre, and the Behringer even have a limiter. Art has a more advanced model with voicing programs and a VU meter as well, the Tube MP Studio V3.

Behringer also have a more advanced model which include an USB interface, the MIC500USB Tube Ultragain. This model has a benefit in case you would like to be able to power it with an external battery as it use DC (12 V, 1000 mA) compared to the other models which rely on AC.
Behringer MIC500USB

/Per

[YamahaGuy]

Originally Posted by HeyMikey

I like the look of that YamahaGuy! The 1/4 out will eliminate the need for the XLR-1/4 transformer which is awkward. I see that GC has it for about $38. Hmmm. Update: That price is for a used unit. Need to look around, but I like this idea.

I actually have two of them (1 on my large pedal board and 1 for my wife's vocals) and the Art Tube MP with the dial on them are around $50 new.

https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...iABEgICj_D_BwE

You can change the tube in them relatively easily and get a variety of tone changes based on the tube you use as well.

As for your eq issue, I also have this https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...-band-eq-pedal
and it's really good.

[MarkF_48]

Assuming the guitar mic is not going to use any of the TCH Play guitar effects and only was to be used to set vocal harmonies, plug the ATM350GL mic direct into a mic input of the Fishman Artist and enable the phantom power. On the channel this mic is plugged into connect a 1/4" TS to 1/8" TS cable from the SEND jack of the Fishman Artist to the AUX input of the TCH play. When an input is detected at the AUX input and no guitar is plugged in, the Play Acoustic will use the music signal to figure out key and scale information. There is a setting in the Play that can send the AUX signal to an XLR out. You want this 'off' so the AUX does not pass to the XLR (it may be off by default). See the section in the Play manual 'Aux to Main Out parameter' and 'Aux In Type parameter'. Connect the vocal mic to the TCH Play as you normally would and an XLR cable from the TCH Play out to the mic vocal channel you're using on the Fishman Artist.

Sound doable?

It may also be possible to use the DI output with a proper cable to the AUX input of the TCH Play. This would be pre EQ in the Artist which I'm not sure makes a difference to the TCH Play.

[Chickee]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

I thought about trying it just to experiment. Without a bunch of effects I think it would be ok (reverb, maybe delay, and doubling) but with harmonies I bet things would get weird.

Originally Posted by Marty C View Post
Wonder how it would work with something like the Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina? Running the mic through the mic channel and allowing it to pick up the guitar and vocal, just as most bluegrass, flat pickers do.

So,
I’ve been fooling around with an ETL Delphina thru the TCH into S1’s. You pretty much nailed it, YamahaGuy, touch of reverb, touch of delay, no double, hi/low harmony on demand. It sets the harmony with it’s onboard mics of what it hears being played. Two singers, two guitars, it sounds pretty good out of the S1’s. I’m working in a space of 17x26 and volume is low compared to what an actual performance would be, but feedback has not yet reared it’s ugly head.

[YamahaGuy]

Originally Posted by Chickee

Originally Posted by Marty C View Post
Wonder how it would work with something like the Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina? Running the mic through the mic channel and allowing it to pick up the guitar and vocal, just as most bluegrass, flat pickers do.

So,
I’ve been fooling around with an ETL Delphina thru the TCH into S1’s. You pretty much nailed it, YamahaGuy, touch of reverb, touch of delay, no double, hi/low harmony on demand. It sets the harmony with it’s onboard mics of what it hears being played. Two singers, two guitars, it sounds pretty good out of the S1’s. I’m working in a space of 17x26 and volume is low compared to what an actual performance would be, but feedback has not yet reared it’s ugly head.

I know what I'll be doing tomorrow...thanks for sharing your experiment!

[TaylorCocobolo]

HeyMikey,
This is a great post! I was wondering about a setup like this myself. I’d like to get the benefit of harmony effects or auto-correction without having to put a pickup in my guitars, but using mic and preamp in TCH play acoustic. Thanks!

[TaylorCocobolo]

Could a TC voice tone GXT be used in similar fashion without a guitar pickup, but by micing a guitar and singing into mic?