Pick Noise

[1833]

I have finally got off my wallet and purchased a couple higher dollar picks a charmed life nfb-1.25 casein artisan series and a blue chip TP 40 my ears are not hearing any pick noise from either pick . I like them both but really am enjoying the charmed life pick it feels good , glides over the strings without resistance easy to play and move around with , has great tone , I can increase the volume without hitting the strings hard . The pick doesn’t come to as sharp of a point as many that I have tried , something about my style and this pick just feel good to me . It may be worth your time to test one out and see what you think . I wasn’t looking for a beautiful pick when I purchased this pick but it really is a good looking pick . Joe R

[Bear Davis]

No matter what pick you are using if you are getting clicking/scraping loud enough to distract from the music then you are doing it wrong.

That being said a 1.5 is going to be more difficult to master than say a .7 or .8. Pressure, angle, attack, and where you hold the pick are more crucial. The reward is more dynamic range and a more powerful overall sound.

IMHO if you have struggled with thicker picks then I suggest playing with someone who has it down and getting some in person tips. Youtube videos or books aren't going to cut it.

[noledog]

I have no issue with pick noise using my "boutique" BC TAD50's or TP40's... technique/attack for sure has a hand in it... pun intended

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Willie

I owned and operated a studio for about 8 years, and I have the opposite view from you. I'm basing my opinions on the experience of recording all sorts of players and guitars. We kept a botique pick (1.2mm Red Bear) with speed bevels just for people who have thin whispy sounding picks.

I've also observed the same to be true of Wegen picks (with speed bevels). Blue Chip were not around in those days.

And when I say thin I mean thin and whispy sounding picks, with pointy tips. Noisiest picks for recordings in the world. Some players are totally unaware (or at least very used to) the amount of noise their picks make. And by thin I mean players strumming so hard they were bending the picks while they strummed (sometimes snapped picks). The bend was part of their style.

The minute we substituted the Red Bear, the thin whispy sound went away (in recordings). This is referring to strumming, not flat picking.

I fully recognize players and picks are very diverse, and I never thought of thicker picks (botique) as noisy. I never recorded a thick pick which didn't have speed bevels cut into the tips.

Larry's experience is pretty much like my experience. Thin, flexible picks make a lot of noise and thicker picks made out of the right plastic compounds produce way less noise. They also produce, at least to my ears, a better sound, more bass and a more well rounded tone.

I am using some 1.2-1.4 mm picks from Scott (Charmed Life Picks), some made from Vespel and some from Casein. I have lost track of how thick the various picks are, but they all sound dramatically better than the thinner picks I used to use. I also have some Wegen 1.4 mm picks (which are actually quite bright) and on my 12-string I tend to use 1.0mm black nylon Dunlop picks. I no longer use anything thinner than 1mm and that only on my 12-string. On my 6-strings I use nothing thinner than about 1.25mm, some thicker.

I don't know if the bevel makes a whole lot of difference, but it makes some. I tend to file bevels onto my picks.

I am mostly a finger picker, but I do use flat picks once in a while.

- Glenn

[MJScott]

Wow! Thanks for all the ideas. There seems to be no consensus. With the picks I already have I got it down to a Fender Extra Heavy or a Wegen Bluegrass pick. I’ve yet to try my Blue Chip TPR 50. I tried out some others too. I had a hard time narrowing it down. I don’t have a great ear so hard to decide. I have 2 of the Blue Chips (both in one of the mandolin cases-didn’t feel like looking for them. BTW, all were A/B’d on a Martin D-18.

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Larry's experience is pretty much like my experience. Thin, flexible picks make a lot of noise and thicker picks made out of the right plastic compounds produce way less noise.

Don't know what to tell ya. I bought a John Pearse Fast Turtle after reading all the hype on this forum, and was convinced I had been the victim of an elaborate prank. It made an audible and annoying 'click' on every stroke and every string. I don't hear a thing when I use my nylon .088s.

[morfi]

Stiffer heavy picks have much greater energy transmission on the string and way thicker, louder and more fundamental tone. Thin picks absorb the energy back and produce that folding "flap" sound, it is energy loss. For a thin pick not to make this noise you have to hold it till the tip leaving 0.1mm to hit the string thus immitating a stiffer pick. In a live ensemble -especially unplugged- where volume is needed you have to have a good heavy pick technique (and a loud guitar probably)
In a noise free living room, alone, with poor technique.... who cares....

[Charmed Life Picks]

There is one problem with Silly Mustache's statement, and I say this having discussed the matter directly.

He has never played casein.

I would challenge anyone to play casein and not find it to be as good, or better, than anything on the market.

Why do I say this? I've been playing tortoise shell picks for more than forty years. I bought them from McCabe's in Santa Monica in 1977, just as they were clearing out their inventory after passage of the CITES legislation. Tortoise shell has been used for centuries as the material of choice. It is now highly illegal to purchase or sell (but not to own). Renown players such as Tony Rice still swear by it.

I fell into high-end picks looking for a legal replacement for my TS picks. I haven't played every pick on the planet, but I've played hundreds of different picks by dozens of manufacturers. None measure up to casein.

One more thing. This is not a commercial plug. I'm speaking as a player, not as a businessman. I can play anything I want, and I have access to every plastic on the planet -- at wholesale. If you look in my pick box, you will see 80% casein. Because it sounds better than anything else, and also feels closer to tortoise. My opinion.

No pick material is for everyone, and we're lucky to live in a time with such wonderful choices. But I would advise everyone to play casein and see what they think. Return it if you don't like it. Someone who has never played casein plastic clearly has no valid opinion on it. And as I always say: If you're looking for the ultimate flatpick and have never played casein, your journey is incomplete.

Again, only my opinion, but an informed one.

best to all,
scott memmer

[Charmed Life Picks]

There are a lot of great materials and companies mentioned here. I've been an inveterate pick nerd for forty years, and I still haven't learned everything there is to learn.

That being said, I would challenge anyone to play casein and not find it to be as good, or better, than anything on the market. It's just a remarkable material that everyone should experience.

Why do I say this? Here's my history. I've been playing genuine tortoise shell picks for more than forty years. I bought them from McCabe's in Santa Monica in 1977, just as they were clearing out their inventory after passage of the CITES legislation. Tortoise shell has been used for centuries as the material of choice. It is now highly illegal to purchase or sell (but not to own). But renown players such as Tony Rice and many many others still swear by it.

I fell into high-end picks looking for a legal replacement for my TS picks. I haven't played every pick on the planet, but I've played hundreds of different picks by dozens of manufacturers. I don't know anyone who's played more high-end pick materials than me, but I don't know everyone. I've even played a few pick materials that NO ONE is using because no one knows about them.

None of them compares with casein. (My opinion.)

I'm clearly passionate and a little nutty about this stuff; that goes without saying. But I'm speaking here only as a player. Think about it: I can play anything I want; I have access to hundreds of plastics, I can get every plastic on the planet -- at wholesale. And yet, if you look in my pick box, you will see 80% casein. Because it sounds better than anything else, and also feels closer to tortoise. Again, my humble opinion.

No pick material is for everyone, and we're lucky to live in a time with such wonderful choices. But I would advise everyone to play casein and see what they think. There's a reason thousands of players swear by it. Someone who has never played casein is incompletely informed. As I always tell people, If you're looking for the ultimate flatpick and have never played casein, your pick journey is incomplete.

Only my opinion, yes, but an informed one.

best to all,
scott memmer[/QUOTE]

[JC.]

I believe the point Silly was trying to make with humour is that EVERYONE has an opinion.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Willie

I owned and operated a studio for about 8 years, and I have the opposite view from you. I'm basing my opinions on the experience of recording all sorts of players and guitars. We kept a botique pick (1.2mm Red Bear) with speed bevels just for people who have thin whispy sounding picks.

I've also observed the same to be true of Wegen picks (with speed bevels). Blue Chip were not around in those days.

And when I say thin I mean thin and whispy sounding picks, with pointy tips. Noisiest picks for recordings in the world. Some players are totally unaware (or at least very used to) the amount of noise their picks make. And by thin I mean players strumming so hard they were bending the picks while they strummed (sometimes snapped picks). The bend was part of their style.

The minute we substituted the Red Bear, the thin whispy sound went away (in recordings). This is referring to strumming, not flat picking.

I fully recognize players and picks are very diverse, and I never thought of thicker picks (botique) as noisy. I never recorded a thick pick which didn't have speed bevels cut into the tips.

But surely those same players gig with those noisy picks without complaint? Personally I like to hear extraneous noises in a recording; they somehow make the recording more 'organic' and less processed. For example, I have a record of Oscar Peterson where you can clearly hear the piano stool creaking under his weight! Then there's the very brief loud amp hum at the very beginning of the Small Faces', 'Tin Soldier'. Love that stuff! I use Tortex and Ultex .73-.96. Nobody ever told me, 'man, that pick is noisy!'

[rokdog49]

When I flatpick individual notes, my technique is such that very little if any pick noise is audible. I was so proud of myself. Then I realized I'm half deaf. That took the air right out of my balloon.
Seriously, I pick in a hybrid fashion a lot, flesh and pick.

[perttime]

The noise probably depends on how you handle the pick, too. I don't get too much using Tortex 0.88, 1.0, or next one up. A floppy pick gives me a sort of a "slap-slap-slap" noise.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

After prolonged research into this matter I can advise.

Thickness and material mass and stiffness are not the same thing.

The best shape for playing flatpicking etc., is the 346 large triangle.

The best pick material is as used by Blue Chip, and the second best is by Wegen. (but for 12 string, and 00, or 000 sometimes the Wegen is less harsh).

The appropriate Vespal pick thickness for medium gauge strings on a standard or short scale is 1.25 m/m.

The best thickness on (as above) in a Wegen is 1.4 m/m.

For light gauge on a standard & short scale - BC TAD 40 (1 m/m) or Wegen TF120 (guess!)



I have spoken.

That is all.

Dismiss.

Smoke if you got 'em.

signed, The Silly Moustache.

Yeah, but what bridge pins are you using?

[keith.rogers]

I've noticed that if I really listen for pick noise while playing, and turn my head just right, sure, it's there. But, it's not audible in a recording with a mic (or two) that are away from the guitar, i.e., recording the sound produced by the guitar.

Not saying different materials and picks don't make more or less noise depending on your technique, the guitar and strings, etc., but there is a point where [IMHO] you need to start listening to the guitar, and not the pick, because the guitar is what everyone else is hearing.

My own playing, from an objective, recorded standpoint, is essentially no different across a fair range of pick options [I can always find in the fuzzy crevices in my case] if the current *one* somehow slips from its secure place threaded through the top 3 strings....