Gibson L5 - 1934 reissue.......?

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by bohemian

Jazz on a dreadnought ?

Gabor Szabo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkg7Uqdc7Go

HE

[gibsonfan]

I'm with loacmo, as an acoustic player, these archtops do nothing for me tone wise. They are gorgeous and I lust after a Super 400 but I know I would never play it because of how it sounds. I just had a 1929 L5 come to me through a friend. It was in unplayable condition and I considered spending the $ to get back up to speed but, in the end, I saw no point in it and sold it "as is".
[IMG][/IMG]

[bohemian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYR86...eature=related


Gabor was good enough that he was a "major influence" on Santana..
(Further comments reserved ) check the internet for controversy on this subject.

[backdrifter]

Out of curiosity, what did you sell that 1929 L5 for? Looks like it could have been a fun project.

I think acoustic archtops are an acquired taste. If you're used to a flat top sound and continually compare an archtop to that sound, you may never like archtops. But if you spend some time with one and give it a chance, I think they start to grow on most people.

I just bought a 1933 Gibson L7 that I'm really looking forward to owning and playing. I think it will fit in better sound wise with the trio I'm currently playing with than my flat top.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by laocmo

I hate to throw cold H2O on this fine Gibson L5 1934 reissue. But although I love the looks of an f-hole guitar and much prefer that style when electrified, to me they sound acoustically like a cheap laminate top dreadnought. Can't be my ears, I've played and listened to a lot of guitars over the last 50 years. Starting with my Dad's 1938 L5. Compared to a good dread they just sound dead. What am I missing here? Does anyone play jazz on a dreadnought?

I think it's a question of how you approach the instrument. I view the archtop as a very different instrument to a flattop which demands a different technique. They generally repond best to a much more aggresive and positive attack; stroking ethereal-sounding chords on an archtop will definitely not yield the best results.

Bang out some four-to-the-bar jazz clusters and the archtop shines.

[Archtop Guy]

Laocmo: "Can't be my ears."

It absolutely is your ears, and perhaps your hands too.

Some advise, just in case you don't get around the internet much: blanket statements like yours don't enhance your credibility as an authoritative source.

[bohemian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=expst...eature=related

[gibsonfan]

Originally Posted by backdrifter

Out of curiosity, what did you sell that 1929 L5 for? Looks like it could have been a fun project.

I think acoustic archtops are an acquired taste. If you're used to a flat top sound and continually compare an archtop to that sound, you may never like archtops. But if you spend some time with one and give it a chance, I think they start to grow on most people.

I just bought a 1933 Gibson L7 that I'm really looking forward to owning and playing. I think it will fit in better sound wise with the trio I'm currently playing with than my flat top.

Sold it for 6K on Ebay. You can see more pics if interested when doing a completed auction search. As an aside, i expect it is wrong to compare arch tops and flat tops sonically. They may both be acoustic but are certainly apples and oranges. For my interests musically I'm a flat top guy but ****, those Super 400s are the bomb!

[backdrifter]

Originally Posted by gibsonfan

Sold it for 6K on Ebay. You can see more pics if interested when doing a completed auction search. As an aside, i expect it is wrong to compare arch tops and flat tops sonically. They may both be acoustic but are certainly apples and oranges. For my interests musically I'm a flat top guy but ****, those Super 400s are the bomb!

Thanks for the response. That seems like a fair price based on the photo above. I probably would've been interested if I had seen that (though I'm glad I didn't!).

I can certainly understand a flat top being a better match for the music one plays, but archtops can be a lot of fun and sound amazing. They may not be for everyone, but I think few would argue the point that a good player can make an acoustic archtop sound amazing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdedBrenPsk

[croth]

Originally Posted by Birch

Just to interject, no matter how you perceive the tone of an archtop like this, if you're not going to electrify it, in order for it to truly sound the way it is designed and voiced to sound, it helps greatly to use at least medium gauge strings, and/or heavy gauge if you can find them.

I don't think a 1934 L5 was "designed and voiced" to be electrified. Historically, the L5 is considered to be the first archtop guitar, conceived of by Orville Gibson c. 1922 and advanced in design by Lloyd Loar in the early '30's. There were not yet electric archtop guitars. The L5 was designed to be an acoustic guitar. Many of your favorite original big band jazz players used an acoustic L5, no electronics. Every archtop guitar, electric or otherwise, you see and play today is a permutation of the L5.

You should treat yourself and go to the show entitled Guitar Heroes at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in Manhattan. The first guitar in the program is the L5.

Btw, I use medium gauge strings on mine (.12's), and I enjoy the tone a lot. Many do use .13's.

[croth]

Originally Posted by bohemian

Jazz on a dreadnought ?

Gabor Szabo

There's an entire thread on playing jazz on a flattop on the rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz newsgroup. I suggest you check it out. Why you would think that jazz cannot be played on a flattop escapes me.

Check the link someone else in this thread supplied and then tell us if jazz can't be played on a flattop.

[croth]

Originally Posted by gibsonfan

I'm with loacmo, as an acoustic player, these archtops do nothing for me tone wise. They are gorgeous and I lust after a Super 400 but I know I would never play it because of how it sounds. I just had a 1929 L5 come to me through a friend. It was in unplayable condition and I considered spending the $ to get back up to speed but, in the end, I saw no point in it and sold it "as is".
[IMG][/IMG]

Ow. I'm in pain. I wish I had had that guitar sent my way. I would have loved it. You let a historical vintage masterpiece slip through your fingers. I'm gonna cry. ;-)

Take a listen to Julian Lage playing his 1932 L5 at the Woodstock Invitational this past October and then let's talk about "tone-wise". It's my opinion that the multi-$10G's Parker guitar that Frank Vignola is playing certainly does not blow away that L5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfqop_kmvQ0

What about you?

[Archtop Guy]

croth,

I was at the Met show a few weekends ago and saw the Anthony Wilson "Four Seasons" concert. I've been recommending the show to all my friends.

Love that Julian Lange video. He was one of the players at the Met too, so I got pretty lucky. Great tone. Glad to meet another "archtop evangelist" 'round these parts!

[croth]

Originally Posted by Archtop Guy

croth,

I was at the Met show a few weekends ago and saw the Anthony Wilson "Four Seasons" concert. I've been recommending the show to all my friends.

Love that Julian Lange video. He was one of the players at the Met too, so I got pretty lucky. Great tone. Glad to meet another "archtop evangelist" 'round these parts!

I come about my new found acoustic archtop guitar taste honestly, archtop guy. I started playing guitar as a lover of Travis-style ragtime/blues/folk, and of flatpicked bluegrass. All of my early on guitars were flattops, and for the longest time, I wouldn't pay attention to anything else. I also became a Martin elitist. I still have my '64 D-28, and eventually accumulated 4 other Martin guitars, including a '46 000-28, and a '94 Schoenberg-Martin Soloist built by TJ Thompson.

But, as the years moved on, I discovered other styles of music and eventually discovered a love for gypsy jazz and began to dabble in "traditional" jazz, which led to my appreciation of archtop guitars, of which I own several, amongst which is a wonderful Campellone Deluxe (a guy I think should have been included in that Met show as one of the great Italian-American guitar luthiers).

When I saw Lage play at the Woodstock event in October, I had no idea what that guitar was that he was playing, but I knew I had to try to have one. As an aside, the Parker, while a wonderful instrument, does nothing for me. Such goes personal taste. I went on a crazed search, discovered that Gibson had made a Reissue of the L5 for a short time, embarked on a search for one of those, which are by the way, just as hard to find as an original, and got really lucky in landing one in only 3 months of searching. Try to find another...

Anyway, I have returned to acoustic music, have a really interesting all-acoustic band (well, except for our bassist...), rediscovered my passion for acoustic guitars, but both flattops and archtops. The only thing that could get me to part with that Reissue L5 would be a "real" one. I do have a bead on two original '34 L5's, but, I have to reject one, and I don't know if I'll be able to land the other, or if I even now want to spend the money that I'm guessing it will cost.

If I had gotten backdrifter's opportunity, I would not have let that guitar go so easily. It's one of the true classic collectibles, imho, even being pre-Loar. I bought and sold a '60 Telecaster Custom a few years ago, had not grasped the uniqueness of it at the time, and am still kicking myself for selling it. I hope backdrifter will not feel the same regret in some time to come.

[bohemian]

croth

"why would you that jazz cannot be played on a flattop escapes me"

Not sue you directed that comment at me....
I simply pointed out in the provided link proving it has and is being done...
I enjoy jazz on a flattop or archtop....

Gabor Szabo has been one of my favorites .. a shame someone else later pirated his work and called it their own ..... another story.

I will either buy or build an archtop this summer. No electrics, no cutaway.