Free tabs marketed

[rick-slo]

Interestingly I find tabs I did and on my website and share for free of my originals and arrangements have made their way
to some other websites where a there is a cost. Pretty typical thing I suppose.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Interestingly I find tabs I did and on my website and share for free of my originals and arrangements have made their way
to some other websites where a there is a cost. Pretty typical thing I suppose.

That sounds a little illegal

An email from you stating you want a large percentage of the sales or else your lawyer will take action would probably cure the issues.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Interestingly I find tabs I did and on my website and share for free of my originals and arrangements have made their way
to some other websites where a there is a cost. Pretty typical thing I suppose.

If they bought them from you and decide to resale after the fact (and could get a buyer) that is one thing. If they stole something from you you intended to be free, well that is an all time low. At least you have demand, I couldn't give away my tabs !

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by TBman

That sounds a little illegal

An email from you stating you want a large percentage of the sales or else your lawyer will take action would probably cure the issues.

A couple of problems that immediately spring to mind...
1. How does one prove that's their tab? If two people are very good at creating tablature, its stands to reason they can come to identical results independently.
2. Even if it was possible to prove you created the tab, what do you really own that entitles you to a "large percentage" of the profits? The song is owned by someone else and the cost of the website is born by someone else.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by jim1960

A couple of problems that immediately spring to mind...
1. How does one prove that's their tab? If two people are very good at creating tablature, its stands to reason they can come to identical results independently.
2. Even if it was possible to prove you created the tab, what do you really own that entitles you to a "large percentage" of the profits? The song is owned by someone else and the cost of the website is born by someone else.

Derek may have produced CD's with the music which provides a time line. Large percentage means 100% or criminal charges. The cost of the website is irrelevant. A thiefs "expenses" to peddle contraband isn't recoverable by them. It isn't theirs to sell. No title I would think. I cant go online and buy someone's tab or download tab they offer for free and then sell it on my website as if I was the artist.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by jim1960

A couple of problems that immediately spring to mind...
1. How does one prove that's their tab? If two people are very good at creating tablature, its stands to reason they can come to identical results independently.
2. Even if it was possible to prove you created the tab, what do you really own that entitles you to a "large percentage" of the profits? The song is owned by someone else and the cost of the website is born by someone else.

Not owed by someone else. My tabs are of my originals (a few arrangements of music in the public domain). Also on most of
the websites I have run across they do have my name as the originator of the tabs. They never contacted me let alone asked
for my permission to lift them off my website. The websites have tabs by various people but they require a membership fee to
view the complete tabs.

Keep in mind also that many people that tab music (usually music composed and/or played by someone else) do so for sizable
fees and as well there are books of tabs that also cost money.

[Doug Young]

This happens with all kinds of stuff. I get alerts from google about all my stuff being available somewhere, sometimes free stuff that someone wants to sell, other times it's commercial stuff like Mel Bay books that are available for free download. Most of the sites are foreign with urls that make it pretty clear I'd catch a disease of I visited them. I just ignore them, and hope others do too. The internet's a pretty sketchy place at times.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Most of the sites are foreign with urls that make it pretty clear I'd catch a disease of I visited them.

LOL!!!!!

True tho....

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

This happens with all kinds of stuff. I get alerts from google about all my stuff being available somewhere, sometimes free stuff that someone wants to sell, other times it's commercial stuff like Mel Bay books that are available for free download. Most of the sites are foreign with urls that make it pretty clear I'd catch a disease of I visited them. I just ignore them, and hope others do too. The internet's a pretty sketchy place at times.

Yes, well aware. As far as books and the like that are still for sale try typing in a google search "pdf" as part of the search and you will come
across a lot of stuff that has been totally copied off and posted freely on the internet.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by TBman

Derek may have produced CD's with the music which provides a time line. Large percentage means 100% or criminal charges. The cost of the website is irrelevant. A thiefs "expenses" to peddle contraband isn't recoverable by them. It isn't theirs to sell. No title I would think. I cant go online and buy someone's tab or download tab they offer for free and then sell it on my website as if I was the artist.

You're making an assumption (sell it on my website as if I was the artist) that changes the equation. I didn't read that into Derek's original post. Your response makes more sense given that you did and that accounts for our different opinions.

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Not owed by someone else. My tabs are of my originals (a few arrangements of music in the public domain). Also on most of
the websites I have run across they do have my name as the originator of the tabs. They never contacted me let alone asked
for my permission to lift them off my website. The websites have tabs by various people but they require a membership fee to
view the complete tabs.

Ahh... that's a horse of a different color then. You're certainly entitled to be paid if someone is selling your original music.

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Keep in mind also that many people that tab music (usually music composed and/or played by someone else) do so for sizable fees and as well there are books of tabs that also cost money.

I'm not sure exactly how it works in that arena but in those cases the person who owns the song is getting paid too, aren't they?

Does anyone here know if those payments to the composer come in the form of a flat fee for publication or in royalties based on sales? I'm wondering the same about the person who creates the tablature from someone else's work ...fee based or royalties?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Y
Does anyone here know if those payments to the composer come in the form of a flat fee for publication or in royalties based on sales? I'm wondering the same about the person who creates the tablature from someone else's work ...fee based or royalties?

As far as I know there's no standard mechanism for payment for transcribing, so it depends on the agreement or contract with whoever is doing the publishing. I've done tabs for others, I did 2 of Al Petteway's books, for example. We just agreed on a flat fee. I did have an editing arrangement with a publisher for some books quite a while back (not music), where I was paid a royalty, just like the author (tho much smaller) as payment for editing. Book sales - like my books with Mel Bay - pay a royalty per sale, pretty much the same as a record company paying royalties for CD sales, again all worked out as part of the contract (and fairly complicated)

[The Watchman]

Just a thought. You can self-publish a book on Amazon (Kindle Direct Publishing) which can be downloaded and sold via Amazon, but also establishes your book as eligible for Library of Congress registry (dont know the correct term). At least that would make it more protectable. No reprints without permission of the author.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by The Watchman

Just a thought. You can self-publish a book on Amazon (Kindle Direct Publishing) which can be downloaded and sold via Amazon, but also establishes your book as eligible for Library of Congress registry (dont know the correct term). At least that would make it more protectable. No reprints without permission of the author.

Probably because you get an ISBN? I'm not sure any of this would stop an unscrupulous site, which has to already know they are stealing material.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by TBman

Derek may have produced CD's with the music which provides a time line. Large percentage means 100% or criminal charges. The cost of the website is irrelevant. A thiefs "expenses" to peddle contraband isn't recoverable by them. It isn't theirs to sell. No title I would think. I cant go online and buy someone's tab or download tab they offer for free and then sell it on my website as if I was the artist.

First Jim's comment was about tabs made of music composed by someone else.

Which of course is not what Derek was talking about, given it was his original music that someone lifted without permission ...
So there is that.

BUT of course the real question is would even 100% (of the revenue generated by those specific tabs only,, from that website ) be worth the time, energy, and money to pursue legal recourse. And given the tabs were illegally lifted in the first place, it's questionable if a simple demand letter would have much effect... The most it would likely amount to (if not outright ignored) ,,is the website owner removing those tabs from the website. Which given Derek offered them for free in the first place, is net gain of Zero


Also this persistent myth of producing a CD and or mailing a copy to yourself
for establishing a "timeline" as a means to establish "legal ownership" is not correct.

The only thing it would establish is a time frame in which you had "possession" of the material ,,not that you actually own the copyrights to said material .

Again the only way to establish a claim of ownership with any legal teeth, is to have a Registered copyright with the US Copyright office .
Which establishes a legally recognized time frame for when you registered your "Claim" of ownership . And that is it .

[TBman]

Originally Posted by KevWind

First Jim's comment was about tabs made of music composed by someone else.

Which of course is not what Derek was talking about, given it was his original music that someone lifted without permission ...
So there is that.

BUT of course the real question is would even 100% (of the revenue generated by those specific tabs only,, from that website ) be worth the time, energy, and money to pursue legal recourse. And given the tabs were illegally lifted in the first place, it's questionable if a simple demand letter would have much effect... The most it would likely amount to (if not outright ignored) ,,is the website owner removing those tabs from the website. Which given Derek offered them for free in the first place, is net gain of Zero


Also this persistent myth of producing a CD and or mailing a copy to yourself
for establishing a "timeline" as a means to establish "legal ownership" is not correct.

The only thing it would establish is a time frame in which you had "possession" of the material ,,not that you actually own the copyrights to said material .

Again the only way to establish a claim of ownership with any legal teeth, is to have a Registered copyright with the US Copyright office .
Which establishes a legally recognized time frame for when you registered your "Claim" of ownership . And that is it .

If it was me I'd send an cease and desist email. It may not have any effect, but it would make me feel better.