using nylon strings on a Martin classic steel string guitar the wrong thing?

[Winfred]

Hi!

I might own a very nice Martin classic remake (by Martin and not a counterfeit) steel string guitar (a gift maybe to be passed on by an admirer of my music) but really I don't with arthritis have the ability to play it for as long daily periods with steel strings and hope to put nylon strings on it. I would be willing to change the bridge or that larger piece that glues to the face (plate?) if some might say nylon strings wouldn't work on it.

Is there a trick of the trade to effectively tie in nylon strings on a steel string bridge?

Would I be losing out on sound quality if I use a steel string guitar but put nylon strings on it?

Is it better to own a nylon string guitar because it's designed to be played with nylon strings, or is the only difference the rod embedded in the neck (truss rod?)?

Also, if I use light gauge steel strings with a nice steel string guitar can I play just as long as if I were using nylon strings?

Thanks for your attention! Winfred

[Taylor814]

You can purchase nylon strings with ball ends that in principle would work with a steel string bridge/pins. I think the most obvious problems would stem from the significantly greater diameter of nylon trebles compared to steel. Because of this the nut slots would be too small, and likely the nut would be way to narrow (classicals are at east 2" and cross-overs are 1 7/8") for comfortable play. In addition, if you have a paddle head guitar then the tuning posts would likely be too small a diameter to effectively tune the nylon strings without winding too much string on the post (nylons also stretch a lot which would make this even worse). A slot head would probably work better. Have you considered silk and steel, or Flexible Core strings, in 11 - 52?

[ChalkLitIScream]

An all laminate will likely sound better.

Nylon strings simply won't drive your Martin, which is designed for steel string tension.

And as was mentioned, it will feel cramped with the thicker strings. Intonation will also suffer

[Russ C]

Since average nylon strings have a much lower tension than average steel strings you'll do no harm by fitting nylons to any steel string guitar worth it's name eg. your Martin. You just won't get the full tonal response and volume that steel strings would give.

You can buy ball-end nylon sets that will fit a steel string bridge.

Or, as you suggest, you can fit very light steel strings (eg.10-47) to make it easy on your hands but they're still more tension than nylons.

Or try a set of light guage "Silk and Steel" strings - even easier for your fingers.

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by Taylor814

You can purchase nylon strings with ball ends that in principle would work with a steel string bridge/pins. I think the most obvious problems would stem from the significantly greater diameter of nylon trebles compared to steel. Because of this the nut slots would be too small, and likely the nut would be way to narrow (classicals are at east 2" and cross-overs are 1 7/8") for comfortable play. In addition, if you have a paddle head guitar then the tuning posts would likely be too small a diameter to effectively tune the nylon strings without winding too much string on the post (nylons also stretch a lot which would make this even worse). A slot head would probably work better. Have you considered silk and steel, or Flexible Core strings, in 11 - 52?

Hi Taylor814!
Wow! A lot to learn! It's a science! I never imagined that. That Martin D45 is very beautiful and can't hardly believe it seems very much like he wants me to have it but hasn't really said. I feel at times about how am I really not worthy of such an extraordinary gift as it's worth many thousands of dollars. He wanted me to play for kind of an event but I get too nervous and sounded terrible, plus the heavy strings not feeling the same as my classical guitar strings. I never heard of the silk wound type of string, or flexible core strings. What's in the "core"? They are for steel string designed guitars, is that what you mean? They have a lot of tension? Are they designed for people like me who have arthritis? If he gives the guitar to me I might try silk wound and if it doesn't work I'll give it back to him as I wouldn't feel right having it.

I think maybe I hurt his feelings as I was going to play in front of a group a new song I wrote. A few weeks before that night he'd said he'd come with a guitar he wanted to hear me play, so he even came as planned. He wanted me to play it on the Martin, but the feel was so strange, and just before going on stage. I instead used my own nylon string guitar, but no way is it like a world class D45! I did get a standing ovation that I've never seen them do after going to the coffeehouse for a couple of years.

Maybe this Martin is just a dream as I think maybe I hurt his feelings. I'm just asking too as if it's impossible, my hope, then I'd just tell him it's a deep honor and decline as I wouldn't feel right about it. The whole experience is strange as I keep thinking about it all, yet posting here has helped! It would be great to have it on stage. I have to get brave in front of people as other people shaking my hand, and also true when I try other songs I wrote, and a recording engineer who is a musician giving me his album for free and wanting me to play more at the beginning of his own open mic at another location, timed when more people are there, things like that happening. This is very serious consideration and maybe I could have it pre-tuned and on a stand so when I change to another open tuning I could grab it and not delay the audience. I could play it for some songs, just not all night... if that kind of gig ever happens ha! One man acted like he wanted me to play at his coffee shop/cafe. Really though it's strange as he really seems he wants to give it to me but I don't of course want to ask. Another guitarist told me the same guy gave him an electric Gibson worth it seems thousands, a very kind and magnanimous person he is, but only my guess with respect to myself. Wow this is long and will write to the others only barely keeping awake right now as it's late. Thanks so very much and also anyone else with insights would be much appreciated! Carpe Diem!

[wattsy]

Originally Posted by Winfred

That Martin D45 is very beautiful and can't hardly believe it seems very much like he wants me to have it

As has already been said, putting nylon strings on a D-45 isn't such a good idea. It'll be a waste of a very fine guitar. Stick with steel strings. There's nothing wrong with using lights or even extra lights if you find the heavier strings uncomfortable. Silk and steel are also fine but you may find that, with the narrower strings sitting lower in the nut and the lower tension, the guitar will need a new set-up to avoid buzz and intonation problems.

[Martie]

What about the Thomastik Infeld John Pearse Folk - might be a good compromise?

[musicman1951]

Yes, very wrong. You can play it, but you wont' be impressed by the sound.

I'd try low tension, light strings. You'll probably have to try a few sets to find a favorite.

[fazool]

The entire structure of the guitar is different and will sound disappointing, I am certain.

As suggested go with extra light gauge steel strings and drop tuning and use a capo to effectively shorten the scale length.

[pickinray]

For all the reasons mentioned above, it's not a good idea to try to put nylon strings on a guitar designed for steel strings. Steel string guitars are built more heavily than nylon string guitars and require higher string tension to produce good tone. A guitar like a D45 would sound dull and lifeless with nylon strings.

For a D45, I'd recommend using the lowest gauge steel strings that still produce good tone. D45's are built for medium gauge (13-56) strings, but you could drop down to a light (12-54) or custom light (11-52) set with minimal loss of tone, although you might need a truss rod adjustment to accommodate the lighter gauges.

Flexible core strings are simply wound strings with a thinner "core" wire, to make them easier to play. Just Google "Martin FX strings" for more information. Good luck!

[srbell]

I have arthritis as well so I feel your pain! For years I used electric guitar strings on my acoustics. They don't sound as good because they don't have nearly as much tension, but they were playable for me. I've recently switched back to extra light acoustic strings (10's). I started by dropping the tuning down a whole step. As my fingers adjusted I raised it up a half-step. I now have it up to standard pitch and for the most part it works for me.
I would not do the nylon strings on the Martin. Id first try extra-light strings, maybe tuned down a half or full step. If that's not a light enough touch then you could try electric strings - maybe some 9's. This will effect the sound, and may require changes to your guitar setup. The setup is really important as a good setup can make it much easier to play, even with more tension on the strings.

[Dreadfulnaught]

Here is my suggestion. Get medium gauge steel strings, detune to C# and capo up two frets. You have effectively created a short scale guitar. It will be much easier to play due to lower string tension and will have a decent sound. Usta do this on old 12 strings all the time.

[Misifus]

I am curious about what the model designation of this guitar would be. I have something similar, but actually different. Mine is a Martin 00-16C. However, it’s a true classical, with a tie-on bridge and large diameter rollers on the tuning machines. What is yours called?

[zhunter]

It would be better to leave the guitar to the owner to give to someone who would use it as it is designed to be used. If given unconditionally? Sell it and put the money into a nylon string. It would be a shame to waste a D45 by putting nylon strings on it.

hunter

[Doug MacPherson]

Yeah on the arthritis. I have heard that some people actually do use the folk ball end nylon strings on their steel string guitars. Some are beginners and the steel strings are too painful, or have arthritis. Most seem to be home players as I have read up reviews on this topic. Anyway, real life experience: I ordered the La Bella Folk Singer ball end strings and put them on my gs mini. The only nut slot that needed just a little widening was the g string, and i didn't want to mess with it. it was fine. Problem was the guitar is built and braced for steel strings, so not much volume with the nylons. If I was only a home player it would have been alright. But I play out with others, so, I ordered the Cordoba Cadette 3/4 guitar with nylon strings, took off the high tension and put the normal (medium) tension nylon strings on it. Also it is 1 7/8 at the nut. This is really working out well for me, playing is a joy again. But let me tell you, when I had those folksinger ball end strings on the GS Mini, that thing played like greased lightning, lead guitar. Easy easy to play, at least for at home play. If your an at home player only it only costs a few bucks to experiment. If not, the previously mentioned silk and steels aren't bad, I've used those on my mini with my arthritic fingers.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/acce...guitar-strings