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Old 07-03-2020, 11:15 AM
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Default Thoughts and opinions on Stevie Ray Vaughan

Disclaimer: I am in no saying that SRV "did it wrong", or "it would have been better if". I am looking for ideas and impressions on the why.

So, I was working on "Pride and Joy" wanting to adapt it to acoustic slide. But first I wanted to learn it "properly" on electric. Maybe not front to back but one time through the intro verse and chorus without the variations.

In just the first 15 bars, there are at least 3 places where he makes choices that are completely "counter intuitive" to not only what I would do, but also what my ear wants to hear. Buddy Guy is an obvious influence, and listening more to him than Stevie in my life may explain what I hear as being out of place. And not just melody and chords. There's a rhythm change from triplets to sixteenths that I've had to practice pulling off a few times because it is pretty foreign to me where it sits.

So. Did he get there by playing it 10,000 times? Did he get there because his influences are more texas based? All of the above and more? If you can think of influences that do it the way he did, I would love those.

Same thing with Eddie Van Hallen if you've ever played his stuff. Some of his "boxes" in solos are completely counter intuitive to the "blues rock" based music that inspired him. That's what makes him so hard to study and learn if you don't have experience with it.

Just thinking about this because to "play it like him" takes more attention than I anticipated while Guys like Buddy Guy, Muddy, Burnside, etc. don't.
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Old 07-03-2020, 01:30 PM
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Timing

It's been said that Jimi had impeccable timing. Thus he could hit a clinker and because it was exactly in time it never sounded out of place. Another aspect of what you are coming to understand is is that as long as you hit the root note on the first note of chord changes the lead lines sound correct. Though the notes leading up to the chords root note may not be in a scale that you understand. Not playing lead lines up to speed can make lead in notes and coloring notes sound really bad. Just a couple of thoughts.
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Old 07-03-2020, 03:12 PM
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Timing

Not playing lead lines up to speed can make lead in notes and coloring notes sound really bad. Just a couple of thoughts.
That was definitely true with the rhythm stuff that feels unnatural. The faster I play it the more right it sounds!

Also much to contemplate in the sentence "Though the notes leading up to the chords root note may not be in a scale that you understand."

Thanks for your response. You perfectly understood what I was asking despite my less than focused question.
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Old 07-03-2020, 03:49 PM
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He was influenced by his brother, Johnny Winter, and Jimi Hendrix if that means anything.
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Old 07-04-2020, 02:52 PM
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This doesn’t answer any questions...but SRV was I thought most influenced by Albert King!🤔
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Old 07-04-2020, 02:57 PM
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This doesn’t answer any questions...but SRV was I thought most influenced by Albert King!🤔
He was heavily influenced by Albert King, who essentially became a mentor to him. But he still sounded more like Hendrix to me, although with healthy amounts of Albert mixed in. I think his big brother was more inspiration and motivation than a direct influence. Those guys played SOOO differently.

-Ray
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Old 07-04-2020, 04:00 PM
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He was heavily influenced by Albert King, who essentially became a mentor to him. But he still sounded more like Hendrix to me, although with healthy amounts of Albert mixed in. I think his big brother was more inspiration and motivation than a direct influence. Those guys played SOOO differently.

-Ray
I like them both but I always thought of Jimmy as more country/rockabilly influenced. Years ago I saw Robert Jr. Lockwood at the Iron Horse in Northampton, MA. He got buttonholed at the break by some dude who clearly had a high opinion of himself. He was talking about various guitar players to Mr. Lockwood, who was clearly only half listening. The dude got going about Jimmy Vaughan and Robert perked up. He said “yeah, he plays blues like it’s supposed to be played.” Mr. self-important got all puffed up and interrupted to say more about Jimmy Vaughan. Mr. Lockwood interrupts back saying “Jimmy Vaughan? I thought you was talking about Stevie Ray Vaughan. I don’t know no Jimmy Vaughan.” The deflated look on the other guys face was priceless.
BTW, please don’t take this as me slamming Jimmy Vaughan in any way. I love his playing. It was sure fun to see that dude get his comeuppance though.
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Old 07-04-2020, 04:38 PM
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This doesn’t answer any questions...but SRV was I thought most influenced by Albert King!🤔
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Old 07-04-2020, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by davidbeinct View Post
I like them both but I always thought of Jimmy as more country/rockabilly influenced. Years ago I saw Robert Jr. Lockwood at the Iron Horse in Northampton, MA. He got buttonholed at the break by some dude who clearly had a high opinion of himself. He was talking about various guitar players to Mr. Lockwood, who was clearly only half listening. The dude got going about Jimmy Vaughan and Robert perked up. He said “yeah, he plays blues like it’s supposed to be played.” Mr. self-important got all puffed up and interrupted to say more about Jimmy Vaughan. Mr. Lockwood interrupts back saying “Jimmy Vaughan? I thought you was talking about Stevie Ray Vaughan. I don’t know no Jimmy Vaughan.” The deflated look on the other guys face was priceless.
BTW, please don’t take this as me slamming Jimmy Vaughan in any way. I love his playing. It was sure fun to see that dude get his comeuppance though.
Jimmie Vaughan plays the blues, but he plays a MUCH more economical, in the pocket kind of blues than his much more flamboyant little brother did. The first time I saw Jimmie Vaughan, in 1979 or 1980, with the Fabulous Thunderbirds, he completely turned my head around about what great guitar playing could be. Before that, my idea of a guitar here was what Stevie later became, what Hendrix and Clapton were - you had to play lead guitar and you had to play it loud and fast and you had to be the center of attention. Jimmie was pure blues, not rockabilly, DEFINITELY not country, but he was a much more economical blues player than your typical guitar hero type.

If you doubt that Jimmie Vaughan was a blues player:



And if you want to hear him really DRIVE the band with his combined rhythm/lead playing:



-Ray
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Old 07-04-2020, 07:38 PM
davidbeinct davidbeinct is offline
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Originally Posted by raysachs View Post
Jimmie Vaughan plays the blues, but he plays a MUCH more economical, in the pocket kind of blues than his much more flamboyant little brother did. The first time I saw Jimmie Vaughan, in 1979 or 1980, with the Fabulous Thunderbirds, he completely turned my head around about what great guitar playing could be. Before that, my idea of a guitar here was what Stevie later became, what Hendrix and Clapton were - you had to play lead guitar and you had to play it loud and fast and you had to be the center of attention. Jimmie was pure blues, not rockabilly, DEFINITELY not country, but he was a much more economical blues player than your typical guitar hero type.

If you doubt that Jimmie Vaughan was a blues player:



And if you want to hear him really DRIVE the band with his combined rhythm/lead playing:



-Ray
I don’t doubt he was a blues player. I like him a lot. But I heard Robert Jr. Lockwood with my own ears.
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:02 PM
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Not sure why this guy (Jimmie D. Lane) came up. Sounds like he’s doing his best to sound like SRV.
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by blue View Post
Disclaimer: I am in no saying that SRV "did it wrong", or "it would have been better if". I am looking for ideas and impressions on the why.

So, I was working on "Pride and Joy" wanting to adapt it to acoustic slide. But first I wanted to learn it "properly" on electric. Maybe not front to back but one time through the intro verse and chorus without the variations.

In just the first 15 bars, there are at least 3 places where he makes choices that are completely "counter intuitive" to not only what I would do, but also what my ear wants to hear. Buddy Guy is an obvious influence, and listening more to him than Stevie in my life may explain what I hear as being out of place. And not just melody and chords. There's a rhythm change from triplets to sixteenths that I've had to practice pulling off a few times because it is pretty foreign to me where it sits.

So. Did he get there by playing it 10,000 times? Did he get there because his influences are more texas based? All of the above and more? If you can think of influences that do it the way he did, I would love those.

Same thing with Eddie Van Hallen if you've ever played his stuff. Some of his "boxes" in solos are completely counter intuitive to the "blues rock" based music that inspired him. That's what makes him so hard to study and learn if you don't have experience with it.

Just thinking about this because to "play it like him" takes more attention than I anticipated while Guys like Buddy Guy, Muddy, Burnside, etc. don't.
blue, I'm not an expert on SRV, but I've heard him a lot. As for Pride and Joy, I'd be interested in knowing the 3 places he makes counter-intuitive choices. He does throw in those A6 or Esus49 chords, whatever one might call them, all the notes at the upper 2nd fret, is that what you mean?

I don't think he's changed the song because he's played it 10,000 times, but he wrote it that way because he's played 10,000 blues tunes before he wrote that one.

Stevie's great, and very talented, but I've never really dug his sound. Is it the Dumble amps? I don't know, but he always sounds tubby and flabby to me, unlike the crystalline sound of Hendrix.
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Old 07-05-2020, 12:31 AM
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I don’t doubt he was a blues player. I like him a lot. But I heard Robert Jr. Lockwood with my own ears.
What does Robert Lockwood Johnson’s opinion have to do with yours, though? He said he’d never heard of Jimmie Vaughan, just Stevie Ray, right? He didn’t say he knew both of them and wasn’t impressed with Jimmie’s playing. He just said, according to your story, “I don’t know no Jimmie Vaughan”. And even if he did and didn’t like him as much as Stevie, his opinion is just HIS opinion, not the only opinion... A lot of people liked Stevie Ray and either didn’t know much about Jimmie or didn’t like him as much, but there are those who like Jimmie more or like them both equally, but differently. I’m more or less in that last camp - there’s nothing not to like about SRV, but IMHO Jimmie is equally great but in a more subtle, less flashy way that would never draw the kind of audience SRV would. Jimmie was a pretty big deal among guitar geeks before Stevie broke through, but then was overshadowed by his brother who became a bigger star... You ever hear the album they did together? It wasn’t either of their best work, but it was a really good stuff and highlighted the difference in their approaches really well.

-Ray
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Last edited by raysachs; 07-05-2020 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 07-05-2020, 03:44 AM
davidbeinct davidbeinct is offline
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Originally Posted by raysachs View Post
What does Robert Lockwood Johnson’s opinion have to do with yours, though? He said he’d never heard of Jimmie Vaughan, just Stevie Ray, right? He didn’t say he knew both of them and wasn’t impressed with Jimmie’s playing. He just said, according to your story, “I don’t know no Jimmie Vaughan”. And even if he did and didn’t like him as much as Stevie, his opinion is just HIS opinion, not the only opinion... A lot of people liked Stevie Ray and either didn’t know much about Jimmie or didn’t like him as much, but there are those who like Jimmie more or like them both equally, but differently. I’m more or less in that last camp - there’s nothing not to like about SRV, but IMHO Jimmie is equally great but in a more subtle, less flashy way that would never draw the kind of audience SRV would. Jimmie was a pretty big deal among guitar geeks before Stevie broke through, but then was overshadowed by his brother who became a bigger star... You ever hear the album they did together? It wasn’t either of their best work, but it was a really good stuff and highlighted the difference in their approaches really well.

-Ray
Fair points all. Like I said in my first post, it wasn’t any kind of slam on Jimmy. I like his playing a lot. I do like Stevie Ray better but they’re both great. I just thought it was a funny anecdote. It’s stuck with me all these years mostly because the dude bending Robert Jr. Lockwood’s ear was so taken aback.
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Old 07-05-2020, 05:18 AM
NormanKliman NormanKliman is offline
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If he was getting impatient, he might have said it that way to get rid of the guy. In that sense, it could have been a figure of speech.

I always liked SRV because his guitar sounded like a guitar, which wasn’t all that common in the 1980s.
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