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  #1  
Old 01-20-2020, 10:55 AM
SlopeD SlopeD is offline
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Default Cites Update

was chatting with a dealer I know and he indicated to be that cites for musical instruments is now basically a thing of the past. He now ships rosewood all over North America. I went onto my governments website and found this:

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ec...sewoods-en.pdf


CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN THE 10KG RULE?
DOES 10KG REFER TO THE TOTAL WEIGHT OF THE ITEM OR THE
WEIGHT OF PORTION OF THE ITEM THAT IS MADE OF ROSEWOOD?
Paragraph (b) shown in the previous section indicates that specimens that weigh under 10kg and are traded for non-commercial
purposes are outside the scope of CITES controls. Specimen
refers to the weight of the rosewood species in the item and not
the overall weight of the item. For instance, in the case of a musical instrument transported for personal use, a 12 kg instrument
containing 5 kg of parts made from Dalbergia would be outside the
scope of CITES controls.


He also said permits are no longer required when he ships instruments for commerical purposes. So thats that!
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:56 AM
SlopeD SlopeD is offline
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Saw this on Taylor's website as well.

https://blog.taylorguitars.com/rosew...-cites-permits
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2020, 11:20 AM
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varmonter varmonter is offline
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So this means when i travel to
canada i can cross the border with
my guitar without needing a permit.
non brazilian.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:22 AM
soma5 soma5 is offline
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All except Brazilian. Check headstock overlays and such because Brazilian was used on small parts even after EIR became the most commonly used rosewood for back and sides.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:05 PM
SlopeD SlopeD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soma5 View Post
All except Brazilian. Check headstock overlays and such because Brazilian was used on small parts even after EIR became the most commonly used rosewood for back and sides.
yeah they aren't checking headstocks on guitars, and things of that nature. Cities was designed for large loads of lumber, like logs, furniture etc, not veneers on guitars.

they have no way to tell if that headstock is brazillian nor would they care.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:07 PM
SlopeD SlopeD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmonter View Post
So this means when i travel to
canada i can cross the border with
my guitar without needing a permit.
non brazilian.
correct or cross border sales, trades etc.

Further, owners of instruments made with rosewood components will once again be able to ship an instrument internationally for service, or to sell, without needing a permit. And traveling internationally with a musical instrument made with rosewood will now be easier. The new CITES exemption ends what has been a tumultuous three-year period for both the musical instrument community and the Convention itself.
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Old 01-20-2020, 01:58 PM
GroovyException GroovyException is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlopeD View Post
was chatting with a dealer I know and he indicated to be that cites for musical instruments is now basically a thing of the past.
That may be the case in North America, but if shipping elsewhere you may want to double check first. I believe the restrictions are still in place here in NZ.
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:32 PM
PerryE PerryE is offline
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10 days ago I bought a guitar in Brazil with laminated back and sides made from “Jacarandá da Bahia” which I believe is BRW. A Rozini made in October last year. Seems to be a non-issue or maybe this doesn’t apply to laminated? NGD under “Classical”. Very happy with the guitar
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:51 PM
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Brucebubs Brucebubs is online now
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Originally Posted by GroovyException View Post
That may be the case in North America, but if shipping elsewhere you may want to double check first. I believe the restrictions are still in place here in NZ.
Don't get CITES restrictions mixed up with the selling restrictions recently adopted by Martin, Gibson and Guild where US dealers are not permitted to sell their guitars to countries outside the USA.

Possibly one of the dumbest moves I've ever seen by a manufacturer.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:17 PM
GroovyException GroovyException is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucebubs View Post
Don't get CITES restrictions mixed up with the selling restrictions recently adopted by Martin, Gibson and Guild where US dealers are not permitted to sell their guitars to countries outside the USA.

Possibly one of the dumbest moves I've ever seen by a manufacturer.
I wasn't aware of that. I assume that only applies to new instruments?

My info re. CITES comes from the NZ Dept of Conservation from whom I received the following message back in December.

"Although the exemption comes into effect for CITES from 26 November 2019, New Zealand law will still be in the process of updating requirements to align with CITES requirements. We expect this to be in place sometime in January 2020.

Until this occurs, the process for all CITES imports/exports/re-exports remains the same, you will still need a CITES permit to enable legal import into New Zealand.

We are recommending that people wanting to import musical instruments containing Dalbergia either, obtain the relevant permits to do so, or wait until the exemption comes into force in New Zealand law, after which time permits would not be required.

If you choose to not wait until the exemption applies, please ensure that the issued permit is validated by border officials on exit from the United States and that the original (not a photocopy) accompanies the shipment. The permit must be presented to New Zealand Customs Service or Ministry for Primary Industries on entry into New Zealand for clearance to occur. Failure to do this will result in the seizure of the specimen and subsequent forfeiture to the Crown. Permits cannot be obtained retrospectively once the specimen has entered New Zealand."


It's January so it's quite possible that the law has now been amended. I will need to check with them again.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryE View Post
10 days ago I bought a guitar in Brazil with laminated back and sides made from “Jacarandá da Bahia” which I believe is BRW. A Rozini made in October last year. Seems to be a non-issue or maybe this doesn’t apply to laminated? NGD under “Classical”. Very happy with the guitar
Congrats on the new guitar!

As others have said on previous CITES threads, BRW is CITES Appendix 1 and not CITES Appendix 2 (which covers the other rosewoods). As such it is subject to much tighter restrictions than the other rosewoods and I do not believe this has changed with the recent improvement to handling of Appendix 2 woods. Unfortunately the fact that the BRW may be a veneer or a laminate does not matter in the eyes of CITES.

So if you managed to ship a BRW guitar internationally you are quite fortunate that it was allowed and I guess that is a function of the interest (or lack of it) that customs personnel have when dealing with musical instruments travelling between countries. I have shipped and carried rosewood guitars around the world many times over the past fifteen years and I have never been asked what the woods were. For example, here in Australia the customs staff are much more concerned about biological pests than guitars.
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Old 01-21-2020, 11:41 AM
PerryE PerryE is offline
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I still find it strange that quite a number of Rozini's guitars (as well as other local manufacturers have "Jacaranda". They are pretty proud of only using wood which is local to Brazil and now they were also present at NAMM showing their portfolio.

I bought a nylon string RX213 ACN which is part of their "linha professional" and they take pride in only using domestic material.

Anyway - will check with more official sources from Rozini in order to better understand. By the way - it was hand carried in a gig bag and not shipped.

Compared with Giannini and diGiorgio I prefer Rozini. Especially since diGiorgio ships wood to China where they are manufactured while Rozini have the whole production chain inside Brazil. I also have a simple 100% laminate cavaquinho (Rozini modelo Estudante) which is quite fun although I am still struggling to learn it.

Sorry for hijacking the thread but it also doesn't make sense for Brazilian manufacturers to import EIR if they can access sustainably grown rosewood locally
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:39 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryE View Post
... it also doesn't make sense for Brazilian manufacturers to import EIR if they can access sustainably grown rosewood locally
and, THAT is the question. Are they sustainably growing rosewood locally? The reason that Brazilian rosewood (Dalbergia nigra), for example, is listed in CITIES Appendix I is that it is endangered due to non-sustainable management.

East Indian rosewood is sustainably grown and harvested.

Last edited by charles Tauber; 01-21-2020 at 09:08 PM.
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  #14  
Old 01-21-2020, 02:18 PM
PerryE PerryE is offline
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Good point and I will contact Rozini directly for an official statement. Since they seem to put more focus on exporting now this surely has to be addressed.

My Portuguese is not great but good enough for asking them.

Update - sent an e-mail to them and a link to this thread. They export to France and Germany as far as I know but not to Sweden where I live

Last edited by PerryE; 01-21-2020 at 02:29 PM.
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