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  #16  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:22 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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My (much) older brother doesnít frequent this forum, so his opinion on it doesnít exist, but when he pulls off a note for note duplication of ďPancho and LeftyĒ by Townes Van Zandt on the cheapest, no name steel string guitar thatís never seen a set up, Iím alerted to the idea there may be many more like him in the world - but what I do know, more than anything, he loves to have a larger number (of money) in the bank.
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  #17  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:31 PM
zmf zmf is offline
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Originally Posted by Tony Burns View Post
So what if you have a less exspensive guitar -theirs too much hype about what a guitar costs or what its made of.
I am struck by the existential nature of the questions being asked of late.

Why is this? We're beyond the Winter Equinox and warmer times are expected? "April is the cruelest month.." and all that?

AGF seems on a cosmic bent.

If someone asked the meaning of life, the thread would get busted for being off topic. But it's getting darn close.
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  #18  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:31 PM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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I canít say that I agree with your overall opinion. Iíve had some very impressive Taylor guitars including an 08 Fall Ltd Koa GS which was hands down the best Taylor Iíve ever played and itís not in the same league as my Bourgeois Slope D Banjo Killer adi/hog custom. Yes, there are some fantastic lower priced guitars out there, but there are some monster ones up the food chain a little ways. Be happy with what youíre able to own is what Iíd say. I thought Iíd cure gas with my Bourgeois and D41, but a Preston Thompson dread kept calling my name. Then I had the opportunity to play a rosewood and a mahogany model owned by my friend and I wasnít blown away by either and prefer my guitars over both of them, so Iím satisfied. This is my final opinion, WHATEVER youíre able to afford and acquire, be content with it and play it to your absolute best.
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  #19  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:38 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by Joe Beamish View Post
I agree with you. So does Tommy Emmanuel.

Your guitar certainly matters, but I agree, people put way too much emphasis on it around here.

It's called the "acoustic guitar forum", and that's what it's mostly about. The guitar, and not the music, not the player.
Right. This forum is a place where acoustic guitar gearheads can come and jabber about acoustic guitars, that’s all. Some of us have more to say than others, but I don’t think anyone here intentionally throws shade on anyone else. Sometimes it definitely gets interpreted that way, but the genuine snobs don’t last long on this forum.

As for me, I’m definitely a happy little gearhead when it comes to what makes acoustic instruments work the ways that they do. Yes, the woods that get used have an impact on how they sound, and - yes - the body designs have an even bigger impact on that sound, as well.

That’s a source of endless fascination for me, even though I know full well that it’s not equally fascinating to everyone, not even my fellow guitarists. But there’s ENOUGH interest on this forum that those who are interested can read the comments, then respond and - if need be - disagree, rebut and point out where we’re dead wrong.

It’s the give and take on this forum that I especially enjoy, and I learn stuff on here all the time.

So while it’s unrealistic to expect that everyone that participates here (or reads the posts without posting themselves) will be equally interested in every single topic that comes up, everyone has the opportunity to delve as deeply as they like.

Or not. Everyone has a choice.

My point is that when some of us get off on a tangent about exotic tonewoods or high dollar custom guitars, that is NOT intended as any sort of put down of other guitars at any price point. All it means is that THAT thread happens to be about some obscure stuff that isn’t going to interest all or even most of us on here.

Remember, no one is putting a gun to anyone else’s head and making them read these threads. If it doesn’t interest you, skip it. And if somebody decides to act like a jerk, all it means is that THAT guy is being a jerk.

It doesn’t mean that all the rest of us silently agree with the guy. On the contrary, most of us are probably rolling our eyes and thinking “Jeez, what a tool....

So everyone here is free to dip their toes into the pool as deeply or tentatively as they want. The Acoustic Guitar Forum is a terrific resource, and you can get as much or as little from it as you want.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
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  #20  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:41 PM
EllenGtrGrl EllenGtrGrl is offline
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Yes, the player matters more than the guitar. But there is more to it than just that. It was mentioned that how comfortable you are playing a guitar is important - in general, the more comfortable you are with a guitar, the better you will play. I agree with that. In my case if a guitar's neck is too thin, or too narrow, I don't find it comfortable to play, and I end up feeling like I'm fighting the guitar. Unfortunately, nowadays, most cheaper guitars have thin necks. Also, if I don't like a guitar's sound, I'm not going to want to play it, and it will just gather dust.

For me, there is another, limiting factor, that prevents me from buying cheap guitars - I have a severe allergy to nickel. Since almost all guitars have nickel alloy frets, even playing a guitar for a limited amount of time, means that I run the risk of dermatitis breaking out on my body, due to my immune system going bonkers (most people with nickel allergies, only get dermatitis where they touch the nickel - me, I get it on my entire body). So, I'm forced to get my guitars re-fretted with hypoallergenic fret wire (Jescar EVO Gold). It's not cheap (I do not have the expertise to do it myself, nor the time to learn how to do it) - it costs me anywhere from $300-$450 a guitar to have a re-fret job done. With that cost in mind, I really cannot economically justify, spending as much or more on a re-fret job, than a guitar cost me to buy. Using the 50 percent rule we use in industry (it it costs more than 50 percent of the price of a new item, to repair it, it's not worth doing doing so), I basically ignore buying any guitar, that costs less than $700 (unless its price has been seriously discounted, as was the case with my Breedlove Pursuit Exotic Concertina). In short, my days of "cheap thrills" guitars are over with. Oh yeah, and considering the cost of re-fretting, I could put myself in the poor house, from flipping guitars, so I think long and hard (along with trying them out if possible) before I buy guitars nowadays, to increase my probability of hanging onto them.

Without going on ad nauseum, about how different woods, and construction, make guitars sound different (there is no one truly generic "guitar sound" IMO) - in short, yeah, it really does matter what guitar I have.

Last edited by EllenGtrGrl; 01-21-2020 at 05:34 AM.
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  #21  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:11 PM
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Ozarkpicker Ozarkpicker is offline
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Iím far from being a really good player...still more or less a beginner, but Iíve pretty much always had good guitars, mostly Martins & Taylors. I tried a cheap Yamaha dreadnought for about a week a while back to see if I could do it...and wound up giving it to my girlfriends son who wanted to learn to play. I couldnít wait to get another higher end guitar. I donít think that makes me a snob...but I do greatly prefer playing a high quality instrument. It encourages me to practice and I appreciate the beauty of the wood and the craftsmanship.

That said...I am dreaming of a particular Collings that I cannot justify, because it simply sounds like angels singing.
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  #22  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:18 PM
wguitar wguitar is offline
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I think most of us would agree that both the instrument and the player matter in making music, and the quality of that music. As has been stated or eluded to already, AGF is a place for folks interested in guitars to learn, teach, discuss, ask questions, and so forth. Participants range from people who just acquired their 1st guitar today, to others who are long-time professional players, luthiers, etc. - I would posit that each of us individually determines if we focus more or less on playing or the instrument, and the AGF has folks who happily respond to the most basic of guitar questions to those about the molecular structure of a certain tonewood. THANKS to everyone! Most of all, have FUN playing and learning about guitars!
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  #23  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:25 PM
michaelm101 michaelm101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EllenGtrGrl View Post
Yes, the player matters more than the guitar. But there is more to it than just that. It was mentioned that how comfortable you are playing a guitar is important - in general, the more comfortable you are with a guitar, the better you will play. I agree with that. In my case if a guitar's neck is too thin, or too narrow, I don't find it comfortable to play, and I end up feeling like I'm fighting the guitar. Unfortunately, nowadays, most cheaper guitars have thin necks.

Without going on ad nauseum, about how different woods, and construction, make guitars sound different (there is no truly generic "guitar sound" IMO, regardless of what they're made from, and how they're made) - in short, yeah, it really does matter what guitar I have.
AGREED! This thread was timed perfectly. I have been researching and playing different guitars in efforts to put together and prepare for my new solo act.

Iíve been out of the loop for about 20 yrs and find that things arenít the same as before.

Among other things, my rare 1976 Model 755 Jumbo Taylor 12, strung 6, that I used throughout the Late 80s /90s is now exacerbating my old shoulder injury. Iím a tennis player and coach and I very much need the use of my shoulder.

So, I went and tried out a heap of different smaller and thinner bodied guitars at all price pointsÖ.

Although I also own several other guitars, this Taylor plays just perfectly for me. I LOVE the neck and it feels like it was designed just for me. Furthermore, the tone is simply amazing and it completely blew away ALL the guitars I played (and I played many at ALL price points) play-wise and tone-wise. I even compared other Jumbos including a few Gibson J200s.

This evening, I experimented with different strap lengths. I discovered that if I lowered the guitar sort of Joey Ramone style, I could set rest my elbow on the indent of the guitar and play/strum at around the 16th 17th fret. I may have to have my luthier place something on there to avoid wearing it away, but thatís the easy partÖ It currently has an old Fishman Matrix UST, but Iíll be replacing it with a dual source system that will additionally capture the beautiful acoustic voice of the guitar (MORE RESEARCH!!!).

I may look somewhat different than what people are accustomed to seeing and this guitar may be bigger and heavier than other guitars, but the ease in which I play it and the inspiration I get from the tone that strikes my eardrums, I believe, will trigger other things in my mind and body. All these things combined Iím certain will make be perform better with less effort.

THE GUITAR DOES MATTER!!!

Hoping this all makes sense.
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  #24  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozarkpicker View Post

That said...I am dreaming of a particular Collings that I cannot justify, because it simply sounds like angels singing.
The beauty of this hobby is that you don't have to justify it. Its our hobby, we buy what we can afford, whether we "deserve" it or not
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  #25  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:26 PM
whvick whvick is offline
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I confess I am a guitar gawking gear head. But I also enjoy my less expensive guitars as much as my more expensive. But I have had a good set up done. Regardless I do think there is a point where a guitar is no fun to play, regardless of its value.
Regardless, I have learned so much here,and enjoyed exchanging stories. Thanks all you AGF people!
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  #26  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:27 PM
ManyMartinMan ManyMartinMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Tony Burns View Post
So what if you have a less exspensive guitar -theirs too much hype about what a guitar costs or what its made of. What really matter is how does it sound when you play it . Its the musician not the guitar - i think we put to much emphasis on a guitar and not on what it can do -or what can someone do with it --.
You are correct. It doesn't matter what a guitar costs - IF it allows you to make music and enjoy yourself while doing so. As long as your instrument plays easily and you enjoy playing it, so you will continue to play and enjoy yourself, cost alone doesn't matter.

On the other hand, what a guitar is made of can have considerable influence on how the instrument sounds. So, as long as we're talking about instruments that play well and sound good to the owner/player, you are correct. Many, have toured with $300 Takamines and Epiphones and made great music.

Conversely, there are many here that love and appreciate what goes into the design and making of a world-class instrument. The artistry, the woods, the sound and tone that emanate from a truly magnificent instrument is in itself a pleasure to behold.

I don't own a McClaren car but I appreciate all that it is. It doesn't make someone's Kia or VW less but it is in a completely different class than a commuter econo-box. So, if an expensive guitar isn't for you that's fine but it doesn't mean that those to whom the highest build quality and woods matters shouldn't discuss them here since this is an all-inclusive Acoustic Guitar Forum.
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  #27  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan View Post
I don't own a McClaren car but I appreciate all that it is. It doesn't make someone's Kia or VW less but it is in a completely different class than a commuter econo-box.
You need the right tool for the right job. Some are equivalent in function if not cost, the way a basic pickup truck doesn't haul stuff much better than one with all the fancy options.

But sometimes, the difference is between (to really stretch the metaphor) a cordless drill, a drill press, and a Dremel. They'll all make holes, but they can each do things the others can't. Guitars can be that way too.
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  #28  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:56 PM
Idaho Guitars Idaho Guitars is offline
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Thereís a bit o truth in what Tonyís saying if I get his point. Makes me think a lot of the great old time Blues players that played on whatever they could get there hands on. Many of the great old recordings were made on less than stellar guitars-but the players honed out some soulful licks and songs on em. One of my favorite guitars is an old 1968í Yamaha FG110 -Repaired broken neck and all. I got it set up sweet and keep it handy. Not sure why, but when I pick it up and start picking around on it- I seem to get inspired and write most my songs on that old Yamaha! Iíll then pick up one of my Cadillacís to Record the song.
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  #29  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:10 PM
Kitkatjoe Kitkatjoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Burns View Post
So what if you have a less exspensive guitar -theirs too much hype about what a guitar costs or what its made of. What really matter is how does it sound when you play it . Its the musician not the guitar - i think we put to much emphasis on a guitar and not on what it can do -or what can someone do with it --

On here with some yes. It's like going to see the exhibits at the state fair and I love it. We all read about the latest and greatest guitar purchase.😉 In the real world what matters is not what you play but can you play.
Back in the day when I was backing up some popular singers the last thing any concert attendants would ask me was what guitar were you playing tonight. I worked hard to be the best I could be with whatever I was given at the time. If it plays and stays in tune that goes along way with me.😉
You just be all you can be and play on brother.
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When I was young and just starting out I couldn't afford a Martin d18.
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  #30  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony Burns View Post
...Does it really matter what guitar you have ?
It matters to me what guitar I have. It doesn't matter to me what guitar you have. That's the beauty of free-will. You buy what you like/want and I buy what I want and everyone's happy.
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