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  #16  
Old 01-14-2020, 11:57 AM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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I have been taken aback by very lengthy, almost obsessive conversations about these type of phenomenon among younger people with degrees in engineering and the like - it took me a while to figure out they had no training in history and the arts (humanities) - the latter disciplines bring the human condition into a broad focus, leaving the phenomenon of ghosts in the very periphery of human experience.
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  #17  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:16 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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I have been taken aback by very lengthy, almost obsessive conversations about these type of phenomenon among younger people with degrees in engineering and the like - it took me a while to figure out they had no training in history and the arts (humanities) - the latter disciplines bring the human condition into a broad focus, leaving the phenomenon of ghosts in the very periphery of human experience.
That is definitely a real problem being an engineer myself. The kids coming out of college with engineering degrees will make enough to pay off their college education within a few years of graduating. Those with degrees in liberal arts will have a much more difficult time with that. So, what is one to do to get a well-rounded education?

As for the topic of ghosts, I have met people who have their stories, but no experience myself. But then I have met a few people who have seen UFOs. Those were engineering types not given over to sensationalism to fill an otherwise boring life. The interesting thing with them is that, to a person, none claimed to know what they were or where they came from, hence the term "unidentified". Likewise, I have met people who claim to have had a religious experience. There again, I can't claim to know anything that would prove these experiences to be true or false, real or imagined.

With all of those conversations, the only thing I conclude is that there is a likelihood that there is more to the universe than what we can see or know. Now, we have quantum physics and that whole field is opening up a whole new world of possibilities for us, and even aspects that could explain some of the phenomena that some people claim to have experienced.

In short, I feel that I am not in a position to claim to know anything about these phenomena, just as I truly can't fathom the idea that people still alive could possibly know what happens to us after we die. To me, all this is open territory that I have no proof for or against.

Tony
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  #18  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:24 PM
J Patrick J Patrick is offline
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..some are in tune with the infinite and some are not...sometimes the only thing separating believers and non believers are actual experiences...
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  #19  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:30 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
That is definitely a real problem being an engineer myself. The kids coming out of college with engineering degrees will make enough to pay off their college education within a few years of graduating. Those with degrees in liberal arts will have a much more difficult time with that. So, what is one to do to get a well-rounded education?

As for the topic of ghosts, I have met people who have their stories, but no experience myself. But then I have met a few people who have seen UFOs. Those were engineering types not given over to sensationalism to fill an otherwise boring life. The interesting thing with them is that, to a person, none claimed to know what they were or where they came from, hence the term "unidentified". Likewise, I have met people who claim to have had a religious experience. There again, I can't claim to know anything that would prove these experiences to be true or false, real or imagined.

With all of those conversations, the only thing I conclude is that there is a likelihood that there is more to the universe than what we can see or know. Now, we have quantum physics and that whole field is opening up a whole new world of possibilities for us, and even aspects that could explain some of the phenomena that some people claim to have experienced.

In short, I feel that I am not in a position to claim to know anything about these phenomena, just as I truly can't fathom the idea that people still alive could possibly know what happens to us after we die. To me, all this is open territory that I have no proof for or against.

Tony
Thanks for the reply, Tony - I very much appreciated reading your insights (above) on this. UFOs was another topic I noticed a significant amount of discussion about too.

Best,

Jaden
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  #20  
Old 01-14-2020, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
See below :
Ah yes old school integrated DAW, ok makes sense

OK back to the original programing. When I was in my teens and first started driving, I would have sworn there was a ghost in my house that would hide my cars keys. But alas it just youthful distracted absentmindedness
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  #21  
Old 01-14-2020, 02:45 PM
TRose TRose is offline
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I’ve personally had an experience that raised every hair on my body. I’ll try to share it later.

I’m naturally skeptical. The editor of skeptic magazine was asked if he had ever had an experience that shook his skepticism. His phenomenal response was printed in Scientific American. You can read it below. I think he sums up nicely in the quote below how a rational skeptic could have such an experience.

“The emotional interpretations of such anomalous events grant them significance regardless of their causal account. And if we are to take seriously the scientific credo to keep an open mind and remain agnostic when the evidence is indecisive or the riddle unsolved, we should not shut the doors of perception when they may be opened to us to marvel in the mysterious."


https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...m-to-the-core/
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  #22  
Old 01-14-2020, 07:05 PM
Scott O Scott O is offline
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Says it all...

Tony
Unless youre Huey Lewis....

And Fazool, you cant just post up those tidbits without sharing some details. Open up, let's go!

I'll post up an experience once I'm in front of a real keyboard later.
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2020, 07:59 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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As compared to the vast American west- I live in a small town in which the first brick building was built in 1882. And is considered "old"!
Don't think for a second there isn't ancient history in the American West. I grew up near Bandolier National Monument in northern NM. People were living there, and they built towns, statues, ceremonial kivas and more thousands of years ago.

They left behind art, pottery, and buildings when they left Frijoles cañon centuries before the Europeans got there in the 1500's.

A few hour's drive north you come to Acoma and Taos pueblos - longest continuously inhabited communities on earth.

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  #24  
Old 01-14-2020, 09:26 PM
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Unless youre Huey Lewis....

And Fazool, you cant just post up those tidbits without sharing some details. Open up, let's go!

I'll post up an experience once I'm in front of a real keyboard later.
OK they are rather long so Ill post tomorrow when I am at my desk for a bit
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  #25  
Old 01-15-2020, 12:56 AM
Silurian Silurian is offline
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"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence"

Christopher Hitchens.
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  #26  
Old 01-15-2020, 05:05 AM
Daniel Grenier Daniel Grenier is offline
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"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence"....
That, and “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”.

There’s lots of “evidence” for ghosts (and other such) out there. None of which extraordinary.
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  #27  
Old 01-15-2020, 05:10 AM
Daniel Grenier Daniel Grenier is offline
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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
Our cat frequently watched an invisible "entity" proceed from one side of the lounge to the other.
You cat does/did that. My cats all did that. All cats do that. So do many humans, too, evidently.

Say, isn’t GHOST an acronym for: Goofy Hallucinations Over Superstitious Tendencies?
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  #28  
Old 01-15-2020, 05:18 AM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Like Tony, I’ve seen hints that “there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio.”

Most alleged supernatural encounters are easily dismissed as being products of superstition and the power of suggestion. But there’s some things that can’t be easily explained away. It’s not something that worries me and I certainly don’t go seeking those things out or - Lord help us - watch TV reality shows about nerds pretending to be “psychic researchers.” Most of it’s hogwash.

But maybe not all of it....


whm
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  #29  
Old 01-15-2020, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
I'm not particularly into stories about ghosts and such but it does intrigue me that there are things that we don't yet understand - natural recordings or some such.
I feel compelled to just float the possibility - however small - that strange odd men that live alone in the woods and jump out of bushes at people might hear things for rather more mundane reasons.....

Aside from that, he is clearly into music/sound recording/etc if you were there buying equipment for him. Did he have a recording for you to listen to and if not why not? The first thing I would do if I started hearing voices in strange accents, but couldn't quite make out the words would be to record it and see if I could make it more intelligible.

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But there’s some things that can’t be easily explained away.
Why does an explanation have to be easy to be true? A detailed explaination of Einsteins Theory of Relativity is not easy, but that doesn't mean it hasn't stood up to every experiment we've devised to test it against. "Cause magic" might be easy to say, but a detailed explanation of how exactly that works is surely harder than any scientifically based explanation.

To say something is "beyond our understanding" is a complete cop-out and arrogance in the extreme imo. It's basically the same as saying "I don't know / can't work out the answer, so there can't be one". Wade, I know that is not what you said. That's another position altogether - one I also hear from time to time. Just wanted to head off you thinking both paragraphs related to what you said

We humans have an amazing capacity to assign supernatural causes to things we can't immediately explain because we don't like to admit that we just don't know/aren't intelligent enough to get to the answer. To me a scientist is someone who is able to recognize their ignorance and work forwards logcally from there, not jump to an unsupportable answer just for the sake of having one.

At one point the sun couldn't be explained so it was a god. No evidence for that, but at least it was an answer so it was accepted. My 3 year old believes in the tooth fairy because she can't easily explain how a tooth disappears and a coin appears it any other way, but her inability to explain the phenomenon doesn't make the tooth fairy any more real.
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Last edited by RalphH; 01-15-2020 at 09:08 AM.
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  #30  
Old 01-15-2020, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
Like Tony, I’ve seen hints that “there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio.”

Most alleged supernatural encounters are easily dismissed as being products of superstition and the power of suggestion. But there’s some things that can’t be easily explained away. It’s not something that worries me and I certainly don’t go seeking those things out or - Lord help us - watch TV reality shows about nerds pretending to be “psychic researchers.” Most of it’s hogwash.

But maybe not all of it....


whm
Probably the most eloquent little exposition I've read on this topic. Well said!
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