Shure SM81 vs Oktava MK012, vs Neumann km184

BoneDigger · #1 10-18-2020, 02:23 PM

Any thoughts on these three mics for a matched pair for acoustic guitar recording? They all seem to get generally good reviews. Oktava is cheapest for a pair, followed by Shure, then of course Neumann.

Thoughts? Assuming all things being equal: same room, same guitar, same recording interface, etc. which is the best and which is the best "for the cost" as well?

guitarman68 · #2 10-19-2020, 08:24 AM

I would always prefer the Shure SM81 over the Oktava SDC. SM81 is a solidly built mic and is used a lot on great sounding recordings. Many Oktava users experienced and complained about inconsistency in quality - you won't have that problem with a Shure SM81.

Here is what "recording hacks" have on their site comparing the two:
"One of first experiments was to try stereo miking with an SM81 close in and a Neumann TLM 103 back about a foot. I really liked that sound a lot as it gave good depth… Then I tried the typical X-Y approach with my Octava MK012 at 90 degrees. The result was good, but not as rich as the previous experiment. When I soloed the Octava then soloed the SM81 I could figure out why. The Octava was much more a mid-rangy sound, not as deep, lush, or articulate as the SM81."

I owned KM 184s (one pair, one single) for about twenty years (still have one) and recorded a lot of acoustic guitar music . These are great mics - no doubt. More detail than a Shure SM81. But somewhere down the road I got a bit tired over the high frequency lift they provide (ok, you can EQ this out) and even more about the somehow crystalline, hard sounding trebles (you can not EQ that out).
So in the same ballpark money wise I always would go for Miktek C5. Producer / engineer extraordinaire Bill VornDick states he uses the Mikteks more often than the trusty Neumann KM84s these days.

BoneDigger · #3 10-19-2020, 10:19 AM

I appreciate the response! I presently own an SM81 and would like a pair, so I'm debating about buying a second one or buying a matching pair of something else. The SM81 seems very sterile to me. That can be good or bad I suppose. I think it's a fairly "accurate" mic for the most part, but I'm wondering if something warmer might be better. A new SM81 is $350 and a pair of Oktiva with 6 heads is $550. Tough choice!

DukeX · #4 10-19-2020, 02:02 PM

The Oktava mics are just fine. I wouldn't worry about quality issues (and all new mics come with warranties). They are somewhat mid-rangy. But I don't know that you need all the caps (and the pad) for acoustic guitar. You could just get the mic body and the cardioid cap to start. You can pick up other caps in the future if desired.

Then you might have enough cash left over to pick up another SM81 for around $300 and have two stereo pairs.

Not all guitars like the same mics. It's good to have choices IMO.

Some other mics in your price range you might consider:

AT4041
AT4021
Shure KSM137

anton · #5 10-19-2020, 05:15 PM

If I could afford any of those pairs I would get the 184's and call it a day.

BoneDigger · #6 10-19-2020, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anton

If I could afford any of those pairs I would get the 184's and call it a day.

Well, they are quite a bit more expensive at $1500 for a pair. Not sure my playing justified it! [emoji1787]

anton · #7 10-19-2020, 08:54 PM

Yea that is a valid thought. I went through many pairs of cheaper mics, always buying and selling, losing money each time. I eventually just bought the pair of Gefell M300's I wanted and never worried about it again.

I am not telling other people how to spend their money, but in my own experience assuming I have the disposable income I would much rather "buy once and cry once".

Out of your less expensive choices I might lean towards a pair of SM 81's, just because so many pro studios have them, so they probably are not crap.

Another choice in that price range might be a pair of Beyerdynamic MC930's. I have never used them but they are supposed to be quiet, high output, and flat. You could get a brand new pair for $1000 and have the option to return them if you didnt like them.

I had a pair of Miktek C5's. They were nice. A good bit brighter than other mics I had used. I looked around for any old recordings, here is one using ORTF mic placement. My buddy did a bit of mixing and added some reverb, sorry I could find the dry version. Maybe it will help inform your decision.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c5aq6wa9nb...-ortf.wav?dl=0

Doug Young · #8 10-19-2020, 09:53 PM

The first mics I tried when I was getting into acoustic recording were the SM81s. They seemed fine, but I was alway struggling to get a sound I like, placement seemed critical. Then I got a pair of KM184s, and it seemed like night and day, it was like they sounded great no matter where I put them.

That was a long time ago, and tho I recall the epiphany well, my suspicion is that I could record just fine with a pair of SM81s now, with more experience at recording behind me. Nevertheless, I'd say the KM184's in a different class than the other 2.

MikeMcKee · #9 10-20-2020, 06:50 AM

I started out with a pair of Joly modded Oktavas. Like the versatility they offer, but I couldn’t get the recording quality I was after. Then picked up a used pair of Beyerdynamic MC930’s for $600 and I haven’t thought about mics since.

KevWind · #10 10-20-2020, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

Well, they are quite a bit more expensive at $1500 for a pair. Not sure my playing justified it! [emoji1787]

While nobody wants to waste money I don't subscribe to this line of thought.

(If they are within ones reasonable range of budget ) Having tools that have a potential capability that may be beyond ones current ability, is benefit not a detraction. Good tools make any job easier, regardless of the quality of ones skill set to do the job.

BoneDigger · #11 10-20-2020, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevWind

While nobody wants to waste money I don't subscribe to this line of thought.

(If they are within ones reasonable range of budget ) Having tools that have a potential capability that may be beyond ones current ability, is benefit not a detraction. Good tools make any job easier, regardless of the quality of ones skill set to do the job.

Mostly that was tongue in cheek. My issue is that even the Neumann mics, while getting good reviews, do have their detractors. Some describe them as a bit too pronounced in the high end. It appears that all of these mics get great reviews, with a few negatives.

anton · #12 10-20-2020, 09:42 AM

This guy has a handful of nice videos up with the Oktava's, might be worth check out.

Doug Young · #13 10-20-2020, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

MMy issue is that even the Neumann mics, while getting good reviews, do have their detractors. Some describe them as a bit too pronounced in the high end.

The KM184s have a slight presence peak, as do many mics. It's easy to EQ if you don't like it (or if you even notice it). There's a requirement on the internet that if anyone mentions 184s someone has to bash them :-) (Specifically, someone has to say that the old, mostly unavailable KM84s were better.) But they are virtually a standard for recording acoustic guitar. I've recorded at 2 different studios where the owner told me they had a "secret weapon" for getting a great acoustic guitar sound - turned out in both cases, it was a pair of KM184s, which told me that those studios were too busy making recordings to read the internet!

There are tons of mic choices, and the differences between mics of a similar class (and price point) tend to be small - smaller than the difference you will get just by moving the mic a few inches. If I AB mics, which I've done here many times, you can pick out small differences, but if I go back and listen to a recording I made even a few weeks ago, I can't identify by listening what mic was used. Of the mics mentioned, KM184s are in a different category of professional quality. But you should be able to make good recordings with any of them.

DukeX · #14 10-20-2020, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeMcKee

I started out with a pair of Joly modded Oktavas. Like the versatility they offer, but I couldn’t get the recording quality I was after. Then picked up a used pair of Beyerdynamic MC930’s for $600 and I haven’t thought about mics since.

That is a great price on those! It's hard to find really good deals on the MC930--especially singles. They have a stellar reputation for acoustic guitar.

MikeMcKee · #15 10-20-2020, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeX

That is a great price on those! It's hard to find really good deals on the MC930--especially singles. They have a stellar reputation for acoustic guitar.

Yes, I thought so. I was in the process of purchasing a Warm Audio WA 273 preamp from SoundPure when the MC930’s showed up. Bought them both and they are what I currently use...and totally happy with them both.