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  #61  
Old 04-20-2015, 06:49 PM
Jim.S Jim.S is offline
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Koen could you explain a little further about why you need a set of ten molds?
I can see why you might want a fancy self heating mold but I would have though a decent fibreglass mold with a tooling gelcoat surface would get you quite a few bodies and as you already have your plywood plug it would only cost you about $120 to make a new mold off that plug. What am I missing here?
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  #62  
Old 04-20-2015, 06:51 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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Why are you making Mark II before you even know how the first one sounds?
  #63  
Old 04-21-2015, 04:36 AM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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Thank you, I am not sure yet what rosette should go where, what do you think?



The problem is, the first looks good on both. I want one of them to be super clean and the black top to look like it was in the desert for 50 years.

I wont make a round hole in that 1st rosette, the hole will be just like you see it there, cutting along the lines of the pieces ( and a soundport in the body above).

Right now i am leaning towards bottom left and middle top.
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  #64  
Old 04-21-2015, 05:46 AM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim.S View Post
Koen could you explain a little further about why you need a set of ten molds?
I can see why you might want a fancy self heating mold but I would have though a decent fibreglass mold with a tooling gelcoat surface would get you quite a few bodies and as you already have your plywood plug it would only cost you about $120 to make a new mold off that plug. What am I missing here?
I believe in sharing, although this could be viewed as a production secret.

I have made a system inspired by a sluusplant from the tv show gold rush, lol. (Modular approach).

I blurred this, i am a nice guy, but i have to think about my future.



Basicly i have split all actions, and have combined others (like glue jobs) for optimised efficiency. Some could be called jigs rather then molds...

Mold 1 makes the carbon unibody, mold 2 mills the excess trim off, then it moves to mold 3 where another action will take place. The fingerboard, rosette, and a carbonfiber rim that replaces linings will all be glued at once. Then something known from the car industry as the marriage takes place, where a completed upper section, joins a completed bottom section.

So the number of molds adds up quickly, 1 mold to mill the exact shape of the soundboard (after the rought shape was cut on a bandsaw). One mold to drill the holes in the head, etc.

My dream is to have a workshop with these molds in the proper order along the wall. I want consistency of quality and versatility. I am now designing an aluminium mold (which i can not afford ^_^ ) where i can put classical neck blocks in and also a narrower steelstring neck, and also a drop down block with headstock shape... This will make many combinations.... This way you can adapt the mold, only need 1 self heating mold, and offer choices to people. These switchable inserts will be within the vacuum perimiter, but this must be a CNC job, i could not make it so accuratly that the body lines up with the neck and the neck with the head without a resin edge or a pocket at the joint.

There is a tiny chance i will have money in a while, i was scammed out of $7500 2 years ago in the crypto currency community, and now we are winding up the company to force them to refund, i hate to do that, i am a Christian, but they took millions from people and a product was never made or shipped, no reply to mails etc. I still havent fully recovered from that financial blow. I had to let a house purchace go because the renovation budget was gone, it was a big mess.

That ammount would allow me to make a full mold set, and get some materials to get things going.
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Last edited by littlesmith; 04-21-2015 at 06:27 AM.
  #65  
Old 04-21-2015, 05:48 AM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
Why are you making Mark II before you even know how the first one sounds?
Good point. ^_^

I am just trying to keep busy, my package has been shipped with some carbon fiber to make a nut and saddle, and then i can finally string it up...
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  #66  
Old 04-21-2015, 10:03 AM
Jim.S Jim.S is offline
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Ha! Well I am sure you are a nice guy. No need to worry about me though as I am a strictly wood guitar man and your plans to build in quantity sounds just like a real job, again no interest from me there.

Thanks for the explanation regarding multiple molds.
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  #67  
Old 04-21-2015, 10:32 AM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim.S View Post
Ha! Well I am sure you are a nice guy. No need to worry about me though as I am a strictly wood guitar man and your plans to build in quantity sounds just like a real job, again no interest from me there.

Thanks for the explanation regarding multiple molds.
It seemed more logical then a universal mold that could do everything, or by placing different jigs on it. This seperate method, every mold can be filled with another guitar, and there is never a hold up.

I don`t want to turn it into a factory, i just like efficiency and precision in manufactering quality, but have versatility to express creativity.
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  #68  
Old 04-21-2015, 05:26 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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I would say skip all the variations and develop one good model. When that one sells the income will pay for the other models. Going from zero to 60 in four seconds is a big jump when you have yet to crank the engine over.
  #69  
Old 04-21-2015, 05:49 PM
rogthefrog rogthefrog is offline
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Optimizing for efficiency before you have one guitar finished (or sold) and know if it actually sounds good seems premature to me.
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  #70  
Old 04-22-2015, 05:20 AM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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I`m just looking ahead while waiting for materials...

I came back to my calling, so i don`t want to sit still doing nothing...

Certain things could be done like rough cutting the soundboards, that does not change anything. Some things have to wait untill this 1st is done, like building new bodys, to account for thickness, possibly adjusting bracings based on the sound of the 1st etc.
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  #71  
Old 04-22-2015, 09:07 AM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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Master templates for the finetuned model getting close to completion. It`s a mix of thick acrylate plate and polycarbonate, they line up with 5mm carbon fiber pultruded round rods along the center line. Cutting the thick acrylate was a nightmare, it would melt behind the sawblade and re glue the pieces together, that i just cut 1 second ago. -_-



Everything can be disasembled for seperate use, the head, the fingerboard (for shape mill), the soundboard shape and the back shape (which is different)



Everything is made from half templates that were flipped so everything is 100% symetrical (except the lower cutaway, lol).

Routed with ballbearing bit on the half template :




I still need a smaller mold for the soundboard and headplate (they will be dropped inside the body like with the 1st guitar instead of the traditional way of gluing it on top. I have to make a template based on the outer perimiter of the soundboard shape, minus the body thickness. I will do this with a purfling routerbit in a wooden template (don`t want to kill my expensive purfling bit from stewmac on polycarbonate).

I also have to use this method to make every MDF layer of the new master plug mold smaller, the soundboard level being the largest and then getting a fraction smaller towards the back. In the old mold , the sides are at a 90 degree angles on the soundboard, and it it way to difficult to get the cured part out of the mold. A split mold is not really suitable for a vacuum application.

The difference between largest and smalles will be very small, like 2 or 3 mm. The angle helps get the part out of the mold. I can be fighting it for 2 hours, and putting oil and air in like the last times...
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Last edited by littlesmith; 04-22-2015 at 12:15 PM.
  #72  
Old 04-22-2015, 01:25 PM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
I would say skip all the variations and develop one good model. When that one sells the income will pay for the other models. Going from zero to 60 in four seconds is a big jump when you have yet to crank the engine over.
Thank you!

I will take your advice. i will make one of these two a real model, and the blacktop will represent a custom guitar with variations.
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  #73  
Old 04-22-2015, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesmith View Post
Thank you!

I will take your advice. i will make one of these two a real model, and the blacktop will represent a custom guitar with variations.
I hope I did not sound too harsh in some of my posts, I would like to see you succeed. But I have spent most of my life in production environments, worked in a test lab where the company also made composite parts for aircraft, have a brother that developed products and stared his own company, have gone through the design process myself a number of times, and most of all have made a (only) few guitars.

I started my first acoustic and set up to build a few of the same design before completing the first (sound familiar?). Bent sides for what ultimately became five guitars.





In my case I just wanted to give them away and not a lot of money invested in them. Probably no need to mention this is not the boat you are in. After finishing the first one I learned a lot, did some changes for the next ones, learned on the way. I may change the forms if I were to make more the same size of guitar, refining the design with the knowledge I gain. Think you may want to do the same after living with your first prototype also.

When I suggested selling a good model I meant multiples of one design and profits from that guitar can be used to build a whole line. I think designing a process to be able to make a whole line might be reaching too high at first. If you concentrate on making the one design and learning what you really need to do to produce it you may see different ways of doing things to what you think you need.

If you have time I think you should watch this vid and the companion ones from LMI. I won't say more about them as they speak for themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IJ8rg6lw44
  #74  
Old 04-23-2015, 01:26 PM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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Yeah, its a whole process. Step by step. If i keep on this path and work hard, the model will get better and better. If it`s really good people will buy it. There could offcourse be many factors why something isn`t working as hoped. Pricepoint, marketing, competition.

I`ll check out those videos. ^_^

I am making 2 more bodys (for the 2 tops) with this mold and oven:



There is also a lid with 3 thermometers. I`m just going to forget about a ncie fancy space for now, and utilise my rental home better. I am moving all the noisy operations to the shed, and the rest in my workroom. If it really doesnt fit anymore, then that should also mean there is money coming in to rent a workshop...
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Last edited by littlesmith; 04-23-2015 at 01:44 PM.
  #75  
Old 04-24-2015, 07:50 AM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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The carbon strips to make the nut and saddle finally came today!

Ow boy, i really should have made the saddle slot before gluing the ebony bridge on the guitar, what a nightmare.

I tried it with a dremel like tool with carbide blade, scraping it out with a small chisl, file, sandpaper on a straight scraper, carving with a knife, etc.

Then i did the most rediculus thing i could think of and it actually worked...

The base slides along the wenge stick to travel along a linear axis.





This is why i waited on this so long, much higer density then traditional material, i don`t know what the white stuff is made of, it stinks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCzVCMpA2E4

They are being glued in now.





THe bracings are only 0.6 mm thick so they can bend like crazy. This top can go up 3 to 4 mm and down the same just by pushing. That should be very good for the vibrations and sound.

Traditionally, the soundboard must do two things, vibrate and carry the string tension. I have passed alot of this energy to the underlaying support frame ( http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...0&postcount=21 )

I use these thin strips of carbon. Now get some strings and a guy that can actually play the guitar in a decent way, and then i will record and share it.
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Last edited by littlesmith; 04-24-2015 at 10:04 AM.
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