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use it as a source. I agree, knowing the "why" is very important and I'll strive to learn... |
#17
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Many who offer kits also offer lists of tools they recommend for the making of their kits. I'd suggest that is a good place to start. What tools one wants, or needs, depends heavily upon the methods one uses, how many guitars one intends to make and the rate at which one wants to build them. Each person you ask will have a different list: some will include CNC machines while others hand planes. One tool that most (small) instrument makers will probably agree upon is a cabinet or hand scraper. Sandvik and Lie Nielson are the best I've used, though there are many other brands that will also work very well. Last edited by charles Tauber; 10-03-2012 at 09:20 AM. |
#18
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#19
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Joints with larger surface areas are best left clamped longer. There are also woodworking glues with shorter open and clamping times, not to mention shorter open times and longer clamping times (e.g. hide glues). There is a lot to know and learn. |
#20
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Scratch Build Rants
Thanks for the glue info. I'm very wary of the glue I went for the better safe than sorry approach. I guess I could make some cam clamps. I'll have to search for some plans. For some reason when it comes to wood I don't think of making tool like I do with metal. I guess because I don't consider myself a woodworker. Thanks again Charles.
Ps I can't wait to get my new neck design that you and arie helped me with. I'll be sure to post pics of it. I'm sure it will be far superior to what I did last time. |
#21
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I'm also in the process of building my first, I'm taking a build class and setting up my own workshop at home.. If you are handy enough, you can make your own side bender with the heating element of a 10 dollar bread-toaster, a block of wood, a piece of thin steel or aluminum and a light dimmer and save yourself the better part of 300 dollars. Also a go-bar deck is not that expensive to build your own.. only the radius dishes are a bit more expensive, but if you know someone with a CNC- machine..
My tools so far:
One thing I really need is a sharpening device for my plane blades and chisels.. I have tried to sharpen by hand with fine sandpaper on a flat surface and wetstones, but this doesn't work for me, so next month I will buy a low rev machine with a wetwheel and a leather wheel with some polishing paste. Last but not least, a router! For acoustic builds only, a small one (bosch colt)will suffice and a few router bits. Almost there! Bare basics for building and in time when the virus catches you, you will buy lots more items and tools you don't really need, but they make life easier..
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Eastman AC412 (OM) Hohner Essential Pro EP1-SP (parlor) Yamaha G230 (classical) Fender Gemini II (dread) Yamaki YW-20 (dread) OM Curly Redwood/Ziricote (Buildthread, Dutch) GAS in denial: I won't spend my hard-earned money on something I don't need! |
#22
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Two 8x3" DMT dia-sharp stones. Extra-extra-coarse (120 grit), and extra-fine (1200 grit). The XXC one makes quick work of rough grinding bevels and flattening backs of plane blades and such. Then the XF one makes quick work of smoothing out the scratch marks. Don't bother getting the XXF stone, it doesn't save much time for its price, and still leaves a pretty rough surface. After that, get the set of 4 adhesive backed diamond lapping film sheets from Lee Valley (get the DMT stones there too, since they have the best prices), stick them to a very flat piece of glass or plexiglas, and run through all 4 of them. Mega sharp, and quick and easy with no power tools. I don't even bother with a micro bevel on the first sharpening, since the diamond films cut so fast I can just polish the whole primary bevel. Oh, and you'll need a honing guide too. Mine is the cheap silver one you can get for $10-15 at most tool sites. Works great for plane blades, and reasonably well for most chisels. The three highest priorities of sharpening, in my opinion, are: 1. All abrasive surfaces must be absolutely flat. 2. You must have one very coarse abrasive to get new blades into shape. 3. You must have one extremely fine abrasive for the final pass. After those conditions are met, it's just a matter of finding a good set of intermediate grits to minimize time for the least cost |
#23
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You are very right, but here on a dutch forum I had the same discussion and there are pros and cons to stones.. Diamond stones are relatively expensive and my budget is limited. Once you have bought them, they're practically for life, that's true. And they work much faster then natural stones. And if you're not careful with natural stones, the edge of your blades will not be dead on straight.
The machine I'm talking about costs 140 euros, maybe 190 dollars. Good quality diamond stones, a honing guide (had the 1 from veritas, but sold it again) and the items you're talkin about are way more than that, at least in Europe. Importing them from the States is not very interesting, because I must pay VAT and custom fees, which are not cheap! One advantage of the machine is that you create a hollow bevel and for most pro or semi-pro builders over here that is practically the holy grail... Plus, the machine saves a lot of time. You can argue that it's not very traditional, even my father agrees with that, but I have to make choices. I do almost everything else by hand, because I want to and it works very therapeutic, but sharpening is not one of my hobbies.. Before I started this build, I never had any experience with woodworking and I rather develop my woodworking skills than spend hours sharpening my tools.. I realize it's crucial, but I can make my life so much easier with a fairly limited budget. BTW, excuse my use of the english language...
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Eastman AC412 (OM) Hohner Essential Pro EP1-SP (parlor) Yamaha G230 (classical) Fender Gemini II (dread) Yamaki YW-20 (dread) OM Curly Redwood/Ziricote (Buildthread, Dutch) GAS in denial: I won't spend my hard-earned money on something I don't need! |
#24
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I have a Tormek which is probably much more expensive than that. It has a 60 rpm wheel in water and a leather wheel. I bought it mostly for sharpening turning (lathe) tools. It is adequate, not quick, and does not get chisels or plane blades as sharp as other methods, or as sharp as I'd like. It does do a good job on turning tools, though. I think hollow-ground versus flat-ground is like religion: each person has his or her own belief. I've found very little, if any difference, between hollow or flat ground. Both work, neither seems better than the other to me. Quote:
I've tried just about every method out there in search of the quickest, least-messy method that produces an acceptable edge: there are many from which to chose. My current favourite for chisels and plane blades is Lee Valley's motorized sharpener. A friend of mine has a similar Worksharp brand unit that he likes - it is also cheaper. They ARE fast, with no mess, no water, no oil. Wish I'd bought one years earlier. Diamond stones are also good, but much slower and messier. Ditto for sandpaper on glass, but you have the added effort of buying and replacing sandpaper. |
#25
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It's this one: http://bouw.marktplaza.nl/gereedscha...P-23426521.htm
It's in dutch, but it's 120 rpm, a 220 grit stone, with 2 jigs to hold many sizes of blades.. At the same time I see that they don't have them anymore for this price, so I'm hoping I can get it somewhere else... dang! I had to choose last month, a nice 2nd hand guitar or this machine.. I obviously made the wrong choice...
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Eastman AC412 (OM) Hohner Essential Pro EP1-SP (parlor) Yamaha G230 (classical) Fender Gemini II (dread) Yamaki YW-20 (dread) OM Curly Redwood/Ziricote (Buildthread, Dutch) GAS in denial: I won't spend my hard-earned money on something I don't need! |
#26
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Although the machine you are interested in turns at twice the speed, the stone is finer than the "coarse" Tormek. Even the coarse Tormek is pretty slow for any grinding/shaping type work. I'd expect this one would be also. A 220 grit stone is pretty coarse to follow with abrasive pastes on a leather wheel. It'll work, but won't give the sharpest of edges, though, perhaps, sharp enough. I also didn't find that the side of the stone worked particularly well for flattening the backs of blades and chisels and still needed some other means for that task. It looks like a good machine, but be prepared for the idea that it may not solve 100% of your sharpening/shaping needs. [*EDIT: spelling of "course", corrected to "coarse" - thanks, Murray, for pointing out the error.] Last edited by charles Tauber; 10-16-2012 at 05:59 PM. |
#27
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Haven't tried building a guitar yet, but I have built several furniture projects from jewelry boxes to a couple of dressers over the last several years. As far as sharpening goes, I really like Lee Valley's Veritas honing guide. I have developed the touch needed to freehand sharpen my chisels and planes, but still find it very handy for setting the initial bevel angle on new tools, and resquare and bevel secondhand ones. It works equally well on sandpaper and whetstones, and it's virtually impossible to sharpen a tool out of square. I use a Norton 220 grit stone for rapid removal of nicks and chips (don't you just hate it when you look up just in time to see a chisel roll off the table? ), and a combo 1000/6000 Japanese waterstone for honing and polishing. They cut really fast, even on hard tool steels. My bench chisels are literally razor sharp. With the right equipment, it takes me less than ten minutes to sharpen everything I used at the end of the day. The key for me is to sharpen often instead of waiting for the tool to get dull and killing an hour restoring the edge. I have to agree with those who say a machine may not give a good enough edge for this purpose. I wasted a couple of hundred dollars trying a couple, and the only one I kept was the Tormek for my turning tools. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!
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"You don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great." -Zig Ziglar Acoustics 2013 Guild F30 Standard 2012 Yamaha LL16 2007 Seagull S12 1991 Yairi DY 50 Electrics Epiphone Les Paul Standard Fender Am. Standard Telecaster Gibson ES-335 Gibson Firebird |
#28
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He's a pro furniture builder for the last 30 years and practises lutherie on the side.. So, as we say here in Holland: There are many roads to Rome.. We will see, I will never surpass the amateur level and that's fine. I just want to have fun doing it.. I came from a very, very deep hole in the ground and this, among other things, keeps me from falling in again. And if my chisels are not as sharp as yours, but still do the job...
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Eastman AC412 (OM) Hohner Essential Pro EP1-SP (parlor) Yamaha G230 (classical) Fender Gemini II (dread) Yamaki YW-20 (dread) OM Curly Redwood/Ziricote (Buildthread, Dutch) GAS in denial: I won't spend my hard-earned money on something I don't need! Last edited by Richie H; 10-12-2012 at 04:22 PM. |
#29
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So, as we say here in Rome: There are many roads to Holland. Just kidding.
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