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  #1  
Old 10-30-2020, 03:32 PM
Villamarzia Villamarzia is offline
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Default IR recording and ambience

If I record a guitar for the sake of creating an IR and I record in a room with some natural reverb, will I get the reverb also once playing through an IR loader? I am thinking if to buy an Optima Air or better wait for the Voiceprint. There is a room in my house with a great natural reverb and I’d love to have it embedded in my amplified sound. I play classical guitar btw and I don’t own or never used any IR so far..
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Old 10-30-2020, 04:04 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villamarzia View Post
If I record a guitar for the sake of creating an IR and I record in a room with some natural reverb, will I get the reverb also once playing through an IR loader? I am thinking if to buy an Optima Air or better wait for the Voiceprint. There is a room in my house with a great natural reverb and I’d love to have it embedded in my amplified sound. I play classical guitar btw and I don’t own or never used any IR so far..
Only if the IR is long enough and the IR loader can take it.

Send me a 2-track recording using a cloud drive (google or Dropbox)
Track one must be mic and track two pickup.

I will make you IR of different length so you can compare.

Note that it should be better in stereo (then send 3 tracks)
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Old 10-30-2020, 04:11 PM
Villamarzia Villamarzia is offline
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Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
Only if the IR is long enough and the IR loader can take it.

Send me a 2-track recording using a cloud drive (google or Dropbox)
Track one must be mic and track two pickup.

I will make you IR of different length so you can compare.

Note that it should be better in stereo (then send 3 tracks)
It’s super nice of you, but I have a single channel preamp only. I need to figure out how to record separately pickup and mic.. However, maybe I need first to decide among Optima and Voiceprint. I like the app, the EQ and feedback ctrl of the VPDI and the price of the Optima I was asking the question because the only feature I’d miss in the VPDI is the reverb..
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Old 10-30-2020, 04:33 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Originally Posted by Villamarzia View Post
It’s super nice of you, but I have a single channel preamp only. I need to figure out how to record separately pickup and mic.. However, maybe I need first to decide among Optima and Voiceprint. I like the app, the EQ and feedback ctrl of the VPDI and the price of the Optima I was asking the question because the only feature I’d miss in the VPDI is the reverb..
One of the VPDI claim is to remove the room sound.

The Optima might not be powerful enough. I was suggesting the experiment for you to determine how long must be the IR file... then you will know what IR loader you need.
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Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
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Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2020, 04:37 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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I tried this when I first started playing with IRs. I recorded the pickup and mic, and then applied reverb in the DAW to the mic before making the IR. It "worked", but as Cuki says, it depends on the IR length. Cuki would know what the various pedals support better than me, but also what I ran into was a latency tradeoff. With the Logidy pedal I was using, you had a choice of low latency/short IR, or long IR/high latency. So adding reverb, meant I had to use the long option, which gave me an audible latency to the sound.

There are other issues, too - reverb tends to be one of those things you need to adjust on the gig, and capturing it in an IR freezes the reverb level. You can create a bunch of IRs, 10% reverb, 9% reverb, 8% and so on, but it gets tedious to do and tedious to use. Also, unless you have a room that sounds like the Sistine Chapel, I'm not sure you actually want to imprint the sound of your room into your sound, which then gets added to the sound of the room you're playing in. Many people's complaint about ToneDexter etc (not my experience, tho) is that the IR has too much room sound, resulting in a distant/resonant sound when used in a different room.

I'd just get a reverb pedal.
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Old 10-30-2020, 04:56 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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First, I agree with Doug.

Second, it is possible to create multiple IR with different tail shape in order to have “less reverb” (more likely shorter reverb)

But again, unlike your room is worth capturing, I’d buy a nice reverb.

Anyway, this is something worth working first on a computer and then think about the hardware implementation...
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
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  #7  
Old 10-30-2020, 05:17 PM
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James May James May is offline
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ToneDexter captures about 100ms of time in the IR. If you close mike your instrument, you won't have much ambience in the IR. You'll be able to hear it in the phones, but it probably won't be noticeable in a live performance situation as the performance hall's natural acoustics will dominate the sound.

That's why we say it isn't critical that your create your WaveMaps (IRs) in acoustically treated spaces, for the most part. (Creating one in the bathroom may not be wise, however.)

As you adjust ToneDexter's character control from full Character 2 to Character 1 to Character 0, you dial out successively more of the ambience until at at Character 0 you are just left with a sophisticated many, many thousand band EQ representation of the sound of your instrument as heard by the mic during training.

For the sake of completeness, if the room ambience colors the sound significantly so that due to the room reflections, the tonality changes for the worse, then the IR will have that worsened tonality.
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  #8  
Old 10-31-2020, 12:02 AM
Villamarzia Villamarzia is offline
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You all have been very helpful, thanks. I’ll keep using that room for practicing and some recording but not IRs. I’ll buy a reverb instead or - in case I’ll go for the optima - it is an included feature. I’ll just wait for the Voiceprint release and see its pricing here in EU. Tonedexter would be another option but it is difficult to find and too expensive (here). It costs 3.5 times more than the Optima Air..
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