Wiring in a passive UST to a T5z

[subby]

After a lot of discussion with Taylor, my luthier, and an electrician buddy, my luthier will be wiring a passive UST in a series with the body sensor on my Taylor T5z. This should activate only in position 1 with the body sensor for a much fuller acoustic sound. Any thoughts?

[jonfields45]

Did you choose a specific passive UST?

The original Fishman AG pickup is not one of my favorites.

You might want to have your tech review this thread where I reverse engineer the T5 switch subsection schematic.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=401790

I can't say off the top of my head that this won't work, but it is more of an experiment than installing an independent SBT or UST and running it out an extra jack (or installing an extra toggle switch to put it out the existing jack).

[subby]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Did you choose a specific passive UST?

The original Fishman AG pickup is not one of my favorites.

You might want to have your tech review this thread where I reverse engineer the T5 switch subsection schematic.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=401790

I can't say off the top of my head that this won't work, but it is more of an experiment than installing an independent SBT or UST and running it out an extra jack (or installing an extra toggle switch to put it out the existing jack).

I will definitely pass this along to him. Right now we're thinking of just clipping the body sensor wires and then going straight from that clip on the board to the body sensor and the UST. I haven't figured out if we should do series or parallel. Then in position 1 it should be the UST, body sensor, and neck pickup. Does that sound about right? Hopefully that gives enough sound to all three to make a big difference. We did end up purchasing the Fishman AG-125. I can swap it for something else with minimal issues. Do you have another you could recommend for this application?

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by subby

I will definitely pass this along to him. Right now we're thinking of just clipping the body sensor wires and then going straight from that clip on the board to the body sensor and the UST. I haven't figured out if we should do series or parallel. Then in position 1 it should be the UST, body sensor, and neck pickup. Does that sound about right? Hopefully that gives enough sound to all three to make a big difference. We did end up purchasing the Fishman AG-125. I can swap it for something else with minimal issues. Do you have another you could recommend for this application?

I would look at suggested wiring for the Fishman Powerbridge or Baggs X-bridge in an electric guitar to see how they combine them with the existing magnetic pickups. There is a huge difference in impedance between magnetic and piezo, and it is not obvious to me that they can be blended (series or parallel) passively. And regardless the neck humbucking subsystem is wired in series with the soundboard sensor in switch position 1 (so you are stuck with being in series with that magnetic element).

Also, the connectors Taylor uses for their summing board are widely available in electronics distribution (Mouser for an example) and you can just unplug the Taylor Magnetic soundboard sensor for future restoration and use new Molex connectors for your upgrade.

The T5 preamp board follows a passive switching system and is mono in/out so there is nothing you can scavenge from their active subsection for mixing the new piezo.

[subby]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I would look at suggested wiring for the Fishman Powerbridge or Baggs X-bridge in an electric guitar to see how they combine them with the existing magnetic pickups. There is a huge difference in impedance between magnetic and piezo, and it is not obvious to me that they can be blended (series or parallel) passively. And regardless the neck humbucking subsystem is wired in series with the soundboard sensor in switch position 1 (so you are stuck with being in series with that magnetic element).

Also, the connectors Taylor uses for their summing board are widely available in electronics distribution (Mouser for an example) and you can just unplug the Taylor Magnetic soundboard sensor for future restoration and use new Molex connectors for your upgrade.

The T5 preamp board follows a passive switching system and is mono in/out so there is nothing you can scavenge from their active subsection for mixing the new piezo.

I appreciate your knowledge. I'm trying to work out the best way to improve the acoustic sound in position 1 while still using the jack and onboard controls. It sounds like wiring in a UST to the existing board is a bad idea, but what about swapping the current body sensor for a K&K mini, wired directly into the board the way the current sensor is? Would that be more straightforward?

I just looked again at your post about building your own preamp. Is it possible to build a board that would integrate the Neck HB and Bridge HB in one setting, and a UST and body sensor in another? I really only need those two settings and am willing to gut the guitar if it's possible. This is going to be my one and only stage guitar and I really need the best acoustic sound possible.

I found a power bridge video here with some comments that are above my knowledge. Seems possible to integrate the fishman UST in the existing system, if I understand correctly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y0-c20ugxw

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by subby

I appreciate your knowledge. I'm trying to work out the best way to improve the acoustic sound in position 1 while still using the jack and onboard controls. It sounds like wiring in a UST to the existing board is a bad idea, but what about swapping the current body sensor for a K&K mini, wired directly into the board the way the current sensor is? Would that be more straightforward?

That probably won't work either as it will be in series with the neck humbucker, but it can't be said for-sure until you try it (at least it is a much lower impedance piezo than any UST so the mismatch is a little less bad).

I think an extra switch before or after the preamp to go between the native ES1.3 and the new piezo (UST or SBT) is the next best alternative to the more common redundant installation using one of the strap buttons for the output jack. With a redundant install you can use a switching pedal. If you are willing to deal with a TRS cable, the T5 1/4" female jack can be replaced with a Fishman/Switchcraft Switchjack and the ring connection could be used for the new pickup (it might already be a Switchjack with the ring connection available -- I've not investigated that).

I think Taylor is overdue upgrading the T5 series to ES2 and while they're at it replacing the two electric pickups with Strat or Humbucker sized pickups with standard mounting hardware.

[subby]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

That probably won't work either as it will be in series with the neck humbucker, but it can't be said for-sure until you try it (at least it is a much lower impedance piezo than any UST so the mismatch is a little less bad).

I think an extra switch before or after the preamp to go between the native ES1.3 and the new piezo (UST or SBT) is the next best alternative to the more common redundant installation using one of the strap buttons for the output jack. With a redundant install you can use a switching pedal. If you are willing to deal with a TRS cable, the T5 1/4" female jack can be replaced with a Fishman/Switchcraft Switchjack and the ring connection could be used for the new pickup (it might already be a Switchjack with the ring connection available -- I've not investigated that).

I think Taylor is overdue upgrading the T5 series to ES2 and while they're at it replacing the two electric pickups with Strat or Humbucker sized pickups with standard mounting hardware.

I just talked to Taylor again and this time they said all three pickups are magnetic, so this all makes a lot more sense to me now. Looks like it's the Matrix infinity through a new jack or bust. Thanks for all of your help. I agree about upgrading to the ES2. The current position 1 sounds like a harpsichord and is unusable as an acoustic replacement IMO. Thanks for your help man. I wish the Fender Acoustasonics weren't so ugly, as they are basically doing exactly what I'm trying to get the T5z to do, without needing an additional pickup.

[jonfields45]

The Fender Acoustasonics have no neck electric pickup which is a deal breaker for me...

The electric PuPs of a T5 are really ok. A second source for acoustic, such as a K&K out a separate jack, would be a huge step up and given an Acoustasonic has no neck pickup, a better total solution for me.

[subby]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

The Fender Acoustasonics have no neck electric pickup which is a deal breaker for me...

The electric PuPs of a T5 are really ok. A second source for acoustic, such as a K&K out a separate jack, would be a huge step up and given an Acoustasonic has no neck pickup, a better total solution for me.

Fair enough. Thanks for all the help!

[dcopper]

It is much simpler to put in a K&K and run the output to replace a strap button. You could put in an active K&K with volume and tone controls and run the controls from the f hole.
That gives you more options.

[subby]

Originally Posted by dcopper

It is much simpler to put in a K&K and run the output to replace a strap button. You could put in an active K&K with volume and tone controls and run the controls from the f hole.
That gives you more options.

Thanks for all the help! I decided to install a Fishman Matrix Infinity with it's own jack. Would it be crazy to splice it to the existing taylor 9 volt? How much would that destroy battery if I was running both pickups at the same time to an ABY pedal? Thanks.