a buyer’s market

[thingthatisdone]

I like to add dream guitars to my bookmarks for giggles, but sometimes I’ve noticed that even though a certain guitar may be on the market and unsold/no interest for a year, the seller will actually increase the price. E.g. I’ve noticed that one dealer has a “new” Collings that hasn’t sold in 2 years, and they just increased the price. What’s their angle?

[pagedr]

Yeah I've noticed this quite a bit as well recently. Lots of guitars on Reverb from both shops and private sellers that been sitting around for 1, 2, even 3 years with very little or no price change.

In some cases, especially with a private seller, I'm guessing they probably paid a certain amount for a guitar and are just very adamant about getting their money back, whether they got ripped off or the value of the guitar just depreciated since they purchased it.

Probably a similar case with shops, though you'd think at some point they would start to lower prices to entice buyers. I can't imagine as a guitar shop you want a guitar (especially an expensive one) sitting on the wall for years. I do feel bad for shops because it truly is a buyer's market but at some point I think you have to adjust. Maybe they just figure eventually that one sucker will come along and pay their overpriced asking price.

[BT55]

Logic, you’re looking for logic??? They’re looking for suckers! I see used guitars regularly listed at 15% off retail. Everyone knows that you can buy a new guitar at 15% off retail. These people are devout believers of P.T. Barnum.

[vintageom]

Some dealers like Collings have to advertise their prices to honor their commitment to Collings to not go below MAP pricing. When prices go up from Collings, they raise their prices on their existing stock, in their advertised price. Some dealers advertise the higher new price, but will sell for the lower (previous) price if you talk to them.

Depends on the motives and finances of the dealer on the new old stock. If they need cash flow, they try to sell to recover their money and invest in newer stock that will sell better and faster.

A dealer with good cash flow can hold guitars for a long time in inventory, and raising prices will not be visible to MOST shoppers who will not watch the same guitar for years. They believe that once they sell that guitar, they will most likely have to replace it in their inventory at the higher Collings price structure. So they go with the MSRP/MAP pricing.

[jaymarsch]

Depends on the guitar as well. Some sellers are willing to wait for the one buyer that will come along and want that particular guitar and is willing to pay for it. Doesn't mean they are a sucker - just that they have the means to pay for exactly what it is they want.

Best,
Jayne

[muscmp]

sucker born every minute.

play music!

[gstring]

If I see a price increase on a guitar that I really want, offering the lower original asking price now seems like a deal.

d

[EverettWilliams]

Originally Posted by vintageom

Some dealers like Collings have to advertise their prices to honor their commitment to Collings to not go below MAP pricing. When prices go up from Collings, they raise their prices on their existing stock, in their advertised price. Some dealers advertise the higher new price, but will sell for the lower (previous) price if you talk to them.

Depends on the motives and finances of the dealer on the new old stock. If they need cash flow, they try to sell to recover their money and invest in newer stock that will sell better and faster.

A dealer with good cash flow can hold guitars for a long time in inventory, and raising prices will not be visible to MOST shoppers who will not watch the same guitar for years. They believe that once they sell that guitar, they will most likely have to replace it in their inventory at the higher Collings price structure. So they go with the MSRP/MAP pricing.

This - Collings dealers may not sell below 90% of the then current list, so the ethical ones raise their prices when Collings raises its list prices. I think it’s silly that Follings makes them do it, but them’s the rules.

[brencat]

Originally Posted by vintageom

Some dealers like Collings have to advertise their prices to honor their commitment to Collings to not go below MAP pricing. When prices go up from Collings, they raise their prices on their existing stock, in their advertised price. Some dealers advertise the higher new price, but will sell for the lower (previous) price if you talk to them.

Yep, all the boutique brands that enforce the "do not advertise below the current MAP threshold" make their dealers raise prices on existing stock as MSRPs for new stock rises. It's incumbent upon the savvy shopper to ask for the serial #, look up the year, and bargain down the dealer to ensure they are not paying 'new car pricing on last year's model'...

[pgilmor]

Back in the day I used to fix and flip cheap cars. When I’d get one that didn’t sell in the $1200-$1500 range, I’d raise the price by $1000. Worked every time.

[RP]

Originally Posted by BT55

...These people are devout believers of P.T. Barnum.

Barnum's biographer Arthur H. Saxon tried to track down when Barnum had uttered this phrase but was unable to verify it. According to Saxon, "There's no contemporary account of it, or even any suggestion that the word 'sucker' was used in the derogatory sense in his day. Barnum was just not the type to disparage his patrons."

Some sources claim that it is most likely from famous con-man Joseph ("Paper Collar Joe") Bessimer, and other sources say that it was actually uttered by David Hannum in reference to Barnum's part in the Cardiff Giant hoax.[citation needed] Hannum was exhibiting the "original" giant and had unsuccessfully sued Barnum for exhibiting a copy and claiming that it was the original. Crowds continued to pay to see Barnum's exhibit, even after both it and the original had been proven to be fakes.

Another source credits late 1860s Chicago saloon owner Michael Cassius McDonald as the originator of the aphorism. According to the book Gem of the Prairie: Chicago Underworld (1940) by Herbert Asbury, McDonald was equipping his gambling house known as The Store when his partner expressed concern over the large number of roulette wheels and faro tables being installed and their ability to get enough players. McDonald then allegedly said, "Don't worry about that, there's a sucker born every minute."

[Steadfastly]

If the price goes up, many dealers increase the price. Remember, that inventory has been sitting there for awhile and sitting inventory costs money.

[Mr. Jelly]

I often see guitars advertised at well over the standard retail price. I have to wonder who buys them.

[6L6]

I buy and sell guitars via my local CL. It's always worked well for me and I've never had a problem. A few of the things I put in my ads:

* Cash only (I do my deals at the local Police Station)

* No trades

* Price Firm

* Will not ship

* Will not answer any questions unless the client includes a phone number where he/she can be reached (this item REALLY helps cut down the riff raff).


What I've found is that it's much easier to sell high end items with the name Martin or Collings on the headstock. Part of the reason, no doubt, is that I live in an area (Silicon Valley) with a lot of well heeled guitar players who can easily afford such luxury items.

But there's no question about it, today it's a Buyer's Market unless you are selling something very special. Case in point, I recently bought a pristine, one owner 1970 Martin D-28 with zero issues and not a scratch on it for $1450 cash. It was listed on my local CL.

[RGWelch]

So I take it everyone agrees it's a buyer's market? I recently took a J-45 to get some repairs done, bridge needed to be changed from the old floating style. We discussed the value of the guitar as I've contemplated selling to fund a new acquisition. He mentioned that the market is soft, the guitar was probably worth more 10 years ago than today. I'll keep the Gibson if I can't get enough to acquire the guitar I'd be happy as a replacement.

Which brings me to the question, why is it a buyers market? I wonder if younger players are dwindling in numbers? Has the average age of guitarist gone up? Younger kids raised on video games and in the age of iPhones are no longer involved in music like we were in my generation? I'm a child of the 70's, everyone seemed to have a guitar and played when I grew up, or some kind of instrument. But music has changed, and so has the lure of being a musician I think. I just don't see the desire to practice and learn to play in younger generations. Heck, my kids in their early 20's hardly know any Beatles songs, never really listened to them. It's a bad omen.