Are your nails as loud as your thumbpick?

[fregly]

Something I am working on and struggling with, getting as much volume and headroom from my (artificial) nails as with the thumbpick. I wonder if anyone can chime in if they have managed it. The pick has the advantage in a lot of ways in power and attack. At a certain point it goes beyond what my nails can do in technique. I have been doing concentrated excercises to improve my finger hits and strength but still......if I switch and use the thumbpick flatpick wise on the treble strings especially the extra snap and power -- the extra gear is always there. I would really like to get my nail equal to the pick when digging in. Perhaps this is not possible. With the pick the fulcrum of the wrist and strength of thumb are engaged, and more forearm gravity.

[Wrighty]

I have used both extensively and find that the volume I achieve with a decent thumbnail is far more balanced and controllable than any thumbpick. I think that a thumbpick requires fingerpicks to sound balanced unless one learns to ease back on the thumbpick attack.

[fregly]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

I have used both extensively and find that the volume I achieve with a decent thumbnail is far more balanced and controllable than any thumbpick. I think that a thumbpick requires fingerpicks to sound balanced unless one learns to ease back on the thumbpick attack.

It must be possible with fake nails to get them the same. Up to that extra gear. With a flatpick and thumbpick those loud singing notes -- I wish the nails could get there. I cannot think of any player that does it though. Usually the pick is the go to when required for more aggression.

[Dryfly]

We should qualify if the OP meant playing acoustically, not amped.
I can think of a a couple of guys, James Taylor or Paul Simon that have
no trouble amplified with just nails.

[fregly]

Originally Posted by Dryfly

We should qualify if the OP meant playing acoustically, not amped.
I can think of a a couple of guys, James Taylor or Paul Simon that have
no trouble amplified with just nails.

Just acoustically.

[Doug Young]

There's some differences that are inherent. The angle and direction of the attack with your thumb are different from your fingers. I also use the thumbpick as my goal for tone - I want my fingers to produce the same sound. But each finger is a little different, different shape, hits the strings at a slightly different angle, and so on, so it's a challenge to even get all three fingers sounding the same.

For me, a thicker nail helps, and of course, you want to experiment with different lengths and ramps on them. Since the pandemic, I've been doing my own nails, and have settled (so far) on a gel, instead of the acrylics I was having done. They seem a bit warmer to me, and I'm putting them on much thicker than my nail lady did, and I think they're getting closer to the thumbpick. Note that different thumbpicks get different tones, too.

[Italuke]

My real nail is better. Never got into a thumbpick etc. Former classical player though, so that likely makes it easier.

[Tico]

Equal volume (and timbre) when using a thumb pick with 4 fingernails seems to me impossible, which is why they also make fingerpicks in many sizes to fit everyone.

Frankly, I've spend 55 years developing my sound using all 5 natural nails.
(Yes, it's a hassle maintaining them.)
One can get a range of tone from hard to soft, warm to crisp by varying how one uses natural fingers and nails.

If shaped cleverly, the nails themselves can offer a range of to by varying the angle of attack.
Then altering the flesh/nail ratio gives one a wide spectrum of tone that's very useful.
It's like giving an artist more colors for their pallet.

Such variation in tone mimics the human voice, which changes tone as its volume changes, expressing changes in the emotional content and context of what one is saying/whispering/yelling/singing.

Good pianos can do this.
Good piano hammers properly voiced also change from a warm, mellow, round sound at low volume to an aggresive growl at high volume - just like our voices.
Composers and pianists have exploited this piano capability for hundreds of years.

Finger pics can't do any of this.
From them one can only vary the volume, but can get only one timbre of tone, though of course tone will still vary with striking position from bridge to neck.
Regardless of how skilled the thumb/fingerpick guitarist is, the tone itself strikes me as sterile and monotonous compared to the tone from real fingers/nail when the player understands how to use them well.
However with some types of music this is not a problem, and may be an asset.

For fine examples of this google up some recordings of Pepe Romero.

timbre.jpg

[fregly]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

There's some differences that are inherent. The angle and direction of the attack with your thumb are different from your fingers. I also use the thumbpick as my goal for tone - I want my fingers to produce the same sound. But each finger is a little different, different shape, hits the strings at a slightly different angle, and so on, so it's a challenge to even get all three fingers sounding the same.

For me, a thicker nail helps, and of course, you want to experiment with different lengths and ramps on them. Since the pandemic, I've been doing my own nails, and have settled (so far) on a gel, instead of the acrylics I was having done. They seem a bit warmer to me, and I'm putting them on much thicker than my nail lady did, and I think they're getting closer to the thumbpick. Note that different thumbpicks get different tones, too.

I find I can get the tone and volume pretty close between fingers and thumbpick at soft to moderate levels. Just when things get louder my fingers hit a wall and the pick goes beyond. Also, the wound strings with fingers and thumb are closer overall. The plains are further apart, which is more of an issue since the melody up there needs pushing forward strongly at times.

[Wade Hampton]

Nope. Not bare finger competing with a fingerpick. Not up here in the wintry north at my house.


whm

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by fregly

I find I can get the tone and volume pretty close between fingers and thumbpick at soft to moderate levels. Just when things get louder my fingers hit a wall and the pick goes beyond. Also, the wound strings with fingers and thumb are closer overall. The plains are further apart, which is more of an issue since the melody up there needs pushing forward strongly at times.

I think it depends on what you need in terms of volume. I go for balance. The guitar's a pretty quiet instrument, compared to many. If my thumb is louder than my fingers, I can play the thumb softer. If I want a section of music to seem louder, I can play it louder, or I can play the other sections softer. You can pick your dynamic range, within the limits of the instrument. If I really need more total volume overall, I can plug in and be however loud I want.

[RRuskin]

John Knowles & Richard Smith are 2 players that come to mind who use a thumbick with their nails. Both have no problems achieving a good balance.

[fregly]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I think it depends on what you need in terms of volume. I go for balance. The guitar's a pretty quiet instrument, compared to many. If my thumb is louder than my fingers, I can play the thumb softer. If I want a section of music to seem louder, I can play it louder, or I can play the other sections softer. You can pick your dynamic range, within the limits of the instrument. If I really need more total volume overall, I can plug in and be however loud I want.

But I think acoustically ultimate volume and same tones being available to all digits would be a good tool.

[mercy]

thats why I use a FK speed pick. They are about the same sound and volume as my natural nails

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by fregly

But I think acoustically ultimate volume and same tones being available to all digits would be a good tool.

I don't think I have any problem achieving the same volume with my nails vs thumbpick, on the same strings. Tone, to me, is a more important, and as I pointed out earlier, one challenge there is the attack angle.

But you should able to control it, and play any string at different volumes. Here's an exercise Alex de Grassi often teaches - just play a simple arpeggio, pimami, up and down. But the first time, make the thumb louder, then the second time, make the index finger louder than the others, then middle, then ring, and keep cycling. Play slow at first, then get faster, but keep rotating which finger is the loudest. When you can control the string that's the loudest, thumb vs fingers should no longer be an issue - you're in control.