Do you like stringing a classical guitar?

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by Kabalan

when you change strings; you change strings..
when you play guitar; you play guitar...
etc, etc.....

and whatever it is that you do, if it's not gratifying, why do it?

[scottishrogue]

I must be the only person that actually enjoys installing strings on my classical guitars. I love the anticipation of hearing the new strings, because I use a specific brand, which is usually different from what was on originally. I'm always blown away by how different the new strings sound, and I also take the time to apply a little polish, dress the frets, shine up the tuning machines, general cleaning and just looking at such a beautiful instrument...the color, the wood grain, and appreciating the fact that I have been entrusted by the previous owner with the guitar's care & feeding. I like to keep my guitars happy!

What I dislike is seeing any classical guitar that has been strung incorrectly! And I see a lot of them for sale on eBay. Ball-end strings are the worst, because it means that gorgeous guitar has been mistreated and abused! And it also means that whoever did that is not only lazy, but a fool. That's because that is the one thing that will destroy a classical guitar really fast, other than submerging it in water. And I've worked on both. I know a lot of people do it, but sometimes you just can't fix stupid! Another thing that gets to me (although it really shouldn't) is when the strings are wound around the tuning pegs 10 or 15 times.

Btw, I also enjoy restringing my steel-string acoustic guitars, too! Mostly for the same reasons...it's a great time for a one-to-one chat! And it's a lot more fun than washing & waxing my SUV!

Glen

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by scottishrogue

I must be the only person that actually enjoys installing strings on my classical guitars. I love the anticipation of hearing the new strings, because I use a specific brand, which is usually different from what was on originally. I'm always blown away by how different the new strings sound, and I also take the time to apply a little polish, dress the frets, shine up the tuning machines, general cleaning and just looking at such a beautiful instrument...the color, the wood grain, and appreciating the fact that I have been entrusted by the previous owner with the guitar's care & feeding. I like to keep my guitars happy!

What I dislike is seeing any classical guitar that has been strung incorrectly! And I see a lot of them for sale on eBay. Ball-end strings are the worst, because it means that gorgeous guitar has been mistreated and abused! And it also means that whoever did that is not only lazy, but a fool. That's because that is the one thing that will destroy a classical guitar really fast, other than submerging it in water. And I've worked on both. I know a lot of people do it, but sometimes you just can't fix stupid! Another thing that gets to me (although it really shouldn't) is when the strings are wound around the tuning pegs 10 or 15 times.

Btw, I also enjoy restringing my steel-string acoustic guitars, too! Mostly for the same reasons...it's a great time for a one-to-one chat! And it's a lot more fun than washing & waxing my SUV!

Glen

Great post Glen. I really can see how restringing a guitar could be relaxing. I really should appreciate it more. For me, stringing my acoustics is more relaxing than a classical, that's for sure.

[mtdmind]

Originally Posted by scottishrogue

What I dislike is seeing any classical guitar that has been strung incorrectly!

Glen

I totally agree ! Lack of attention to details.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by jersey

...It's sort of a relaxing ritual.

I look forward to string changes. I enjoy doing some DIY guitar work and my fingerboard gets a nice wipe down and light lemon oil every change so the guitar always comes away better than when I started.

Sort of like washing my car.

[Garthman]

Originally Posted by scottishrogue

. . . . . . Ball-end strings are the worst, because it means that gorgeous guitar has been mistreated and abused! And it also means that whoever did that is not only lazy, but a fool. That's because that is the one thing that will destroy a classical guitar really fast, other than submerging it in water. . . . .

Glen

There is no reason that ball-end strings cannot be used on a classical guitar. They do not put any more stress on the guitar than traditional loop-end strings.

Over time, all guitars tend to suffer some problems due to the constant stress exerted by the tension of the strings. Slowly but surely the area of the top behind the bridge will start to belly up and this will lead to a reduction in the break angle of the strings at the saddle. This is especially a problem with loop-end strings since the act of looping the end of the string under the length coming through the threading hole pulls up the string thereby reducing the break angle. When this starts to be a problem on older guitars, the use of ball end strings can substantially increase their longevity.

[scottishrogue]

Originally Posted by Garthman

There is no reason that ball-end strings cannot be used on a classical guitar. They do not put any more stress on the guitar than traditional loop-end strings.

There is a lot of misinformation out there, but any classical guitar maker will tell you that under NO circumstance should you use ball-end nylons on a classical guitar with a tie bridge. If it were a good idea, there would be at least ONE professional "classical" guitarist that would be using them, but there isn't even one...and neither Willie Nelson nor Zack Brown qualify!!!

Ball-end nylon strings are NOT made for use on a classical guitar. They are for use on "Folk" guitars for a more mellow sound and "Parlor" guitars that either have a pin bridge or older guitars that have a tailpiece to anchor the strings. If used on a classical guitar, you will notice the break angle will be increased radically, to the point the bridge will either be ripped off, or create a dip in the soundboard.

The classical soundboard is usually considerably thinner than what you find on an acoustic guitar and has either lattice or fan bracing. My best classical guitar is a Bellucci Concert 640 which has a cedar soundboard with a thickness of only 2.5mm (ultra-thin) and my Martin 000C Nylon hybrid measures 3.5mm in thickness and even though it has X style bracing, it has a tie bridge. It is not unusual for ball-end nylons to have a steel core on the bass side wound strings and the treble side nylons are not top quality, and will often snap before you reach concert pitch. In addition, they are frequently high-tension strings. And, they will not stay in tune, either, from what I've heard.

If you wish to use the wrong strings on your classical guitar, nobody is going to stop you, including me. My only reason for providing this information is to enlighten people, before they ruin their instrument. That's how I roll!

Glen

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by scottishrogue

There is a lot of misinformation out there, but any classical guitar maker will tell you that under NO circumstance should you use ball-end nylons on a classical guitar with a tie bridge. If it were a good idea, there would be at least ONE professional "classical" guitarist that would be using them, but there isn't even one...and neither Willie Nelson nor Zack Brown qualify!!!

Ball-end nylon strings are NOT made for use on a classical guitar. They are for use on "Folk" guitars for a more mellow sound and "Parlor" guitars that either have a pin bridge or older guitars that have a tailpiece to anchor the strings. If used on a classical guitar, you will notice the break angle will be increased radically, to the point the bridge will either be ripped off, or create a dip in the soundboard.

Well, because of the construction of the classical strings there is no reason to have ball ends BUT there are great strings designed for classical guitar (Thomastik classic s series ) which have ball ends.

[scottishrogue]

I use Thomastik-Infeld strings myself, Classic N Superlona (CF127s) on my classical guitars, as they are flat wound with a silk core for the bass side and 'heavy duty' nylons, and with a plain end.

However, I'll try and be as clear as possible, and repeat...BALL-END STRINGS ARE NOT INTENDED FOR USE ON A CLASSICAL GUITAR WITH A CLASSICAL TIE STYLE BRIDGE. The S Series has a rope core, and the ball-end style is intended for use on a guitar with a pin-style bridge, or a guitar that has a tailpiece to anchor the strings.

I realize that Willie & Zack use them, but just look at the guitars they play. They seem to be competing with each other for "world's worst looking guitar" so that should give you a hint what they're all about. They like to get noticed, and it's working well for them. Willie is the only guitar player I've seen with a 'sound port' on the front of his classical guitar. Very innovative, as he likes to 'buck' the system. Zack Brown has red duck tape that evidently keeps his bridge from lifting.

You might want to compare their instruments with the guitars of Sharon Isbin or Julian Bream or any number of world renowned 'classical' guitarists, and draw your own conclusions.

I pretty sure I don't have to tell you whose example I would follow. Just because it's possible to install ball-end strings on your classical guitar doesn't make it right. If you want to destroy your guitar, there are many players out there that would be more than happy to sell you a very affordable replacement guitar, including me!

Glen

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by scottishrogue

The S Series has a rope core, and the ball-end style is intended for use on a guitar with a pin-style bridge, or a guitar that has a tailpiece to anchor the strings.


Glen

Where Thomastik company says that about the classic s series ?

[scottishrogue]

Smooth, brilliant, extra long sustain: Classic S Series PRECISION are soft steel strings with polished winding specially designed for Folk and Concert Guitar. Strings E, A, D, G, B are chrome steel flat wound on a highly flexible steel core, E is made of plain steel. Classic S Series ROPE CORE are soft steel strings with extra long sustain. A unique design employing a highly flexible steel rope core brings a high playing comfort. E, A, D are silverplated copper flat wound, G, B, E are Nylon tape wound.

Clear, warm sounding, heavy duty construction: Classic N Series are heavy duty nylon strings. The basses E, A are silverplated copper round wound on chrome steelflat wound. The treble strings are made of selected nylon. Classic N Series are easy to play and give the player a budget series of high quality Classical Guitar strings.

This is taken directly from the Thomastik-Infeld website. I added the bold print and color for effect. Classic N for classical guitar & Classic S for folk and concert guitar. Btw, their description of the Classic N Series isn't accurate, but in Vienna, German is usually what is spoken. The bass strings have a silk core covered with chromeplated flat wound steel, or possibly silverplated flat wound copper...not sure.

I really don't know where so many people came to the conclusion that ball-end strings are for use on classical guitar, as I have found nothing to indicate this on the Internet, by any classical guitar maker or professional classical guitar player. But, I have found statements that state the opposite. If you (or anyone) can find something stated by a qualified professional, I would be more than interested to see what they have to say.

Glen

[Paikon]

Because you say that they speak German in Vienna i will say that Folk and concert guitar is not accurate either. These strings have the tension of a hard tension classical set and so they cant be used on a typical acoustic guitar because they will buzz everywhere. I know because i tried them.

Perhaps the distinction on folk, concert and classical has to do with the sound these strings produce.
Lastly i didn't say that ball end strings are meant for classical guitar but i believe they wont hurt the guitar if they have the proper tension.

[scottishrogue]

I'm only familiar with the Thomastik-Infeld CF 127s, which I use on my classical guitars because they sound fabulous. The terms 'folk' and 'concert' refer to the size of the guitar body. A classical body is smaller, and the soundboard is thinner, and the bracing is different.

I would say the distinction would be what is on the end of the string set. If it's a plain end set, they should be installed on any guitar that has a classical style bridge, where the ends are tied. If they come with ball-end strings, I would say they should be used on a guitar that is designed to withstand the stress of higher tension strings, with a pin style bridge or a tailpiece, which is designed for ball-end strings or knotting the strings if they have the plain ends. Keep in mind that you would also have to widen the nut slots if you switch to nylons for use on the typical steel-string guitar.

Glen

[Paikon]

Since you have never tried them Buy a set and try them in on of your classical guitars
Alternatively you can do a little search and see on what guitars people use these strings
they are the KR116 and KF110 models
nothing more to say
thanks

[scottishrogue]

Originally Posted by Paikon

Since you have never tried them Buy a set and try them in on of your classical guitars

Why would I want to do that? They're too pricy for me, and I've already determined those strings are not appropriate for my classical guitars. I know which strings I prefer on my classical guitars! And, I just ordered multiple sets of D'Addario & Martin strings for my other guitars. And, I keep many sets of strings in my parts collection, if I wish to experiment a wee bit.

Over time, I've discovered several reasons for some of the confusion about ball-end strings. Part of problem is some manufacturers, and many resellers. I already pointed out how Thomastik inaccurately describes their N Series strings on their website, and many resellers interpret the term "classic" to mean "classical" on Martin packaging. The Martin M160 packaging even has a classical guitar on the front (with a tie style bridge), even though they're ball-end high tension strings. This would naturally lead uninformed people to mistakenly believe that it's ok to use those strings on their classical guitars.

The purpose of my comments are to educate people about string selection, so they can be better informed, and hopefully that will save them some money and maybe a few guitars in the process. My hope is that some members will find the information helpful. Naturally, some will disregard the information...but that's life.

Glen