"Fingernail marks" on Martin

Seijou · #1 01-20-2011, 04:07 PM

My new-to-me Martin 000c-16SGTNE has "fingernail marks" that was left my it's previous owner.

The marks came because the owner and his wife were using their fingers to make percussive sounds during a song. Only afterwards, did they realize the damage they had done.

The markings are at two main areas on the guitar, at the cutaway and between the bridge and the endpin. Both areas on the top of the guitar of course.

I'm really wondering if there's anything I can do? the markings seem superficial, could I get the guitar touched up / re-finished?

Thank you kindly for your advice!

Play2PraiseHim · #2 01-20-2011, 06:26 PM

Though I've never done it myself, I have heard of people getting dings touched up or removed from guitars. I think it can be done as long as it is just the finish and not completely through to the wood. I think, but don't hold me to it.
We want to see some showing off my new guitar shots!

Paultergeist · #3 01-20-2011, 06:26 PM

Based on some previous experiences, a really talented luthier/technician may -- I repeat "may" -- be able to minimize the nail gouges.

I have had some similar minor damages on a couple of guitar in the past -- caused either by a fingernail or a string slipping loose. In my case, the guitars in question were also cedar topped, such as shown in your photo. When I got the guitars back from the luthier, I was very surprised as to the extent that the indentations / gouges had disappeared. I asked the luthier if he had filled them with some sort of compound. He replied that what he had done was carefully used steam in the area of the indentations. He went on to say that the steam will cause the wood to swell and, properly done, this can remove/reduce some minor dents.

I would not have tried this myself, but this luthier was able to make the procedure work with (in my opinion) excellent results.

Jeff M · #4 01-20-2011, 11:03 PM

Shame the prior owner didn't pay attention to what they were doing.
You can rap on the guitar with your hand slightly closed and get a great percussive sound that includes the back of your nails without having use the nail tips.
A wee bit of control can go a long way to protecting a guitars finish without sacrificing technique.

Seijou · #5 01-21-2011, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff M

Shame the prior owner didn't pay attention to what they were doing.
You can rap on the guitar with your hand slightly closed and get a great percussive sound that includes the back of your nails without having use the nail tips.
A wee bit of control can go a long way to protecting a guitars finish without sacrificing technique.

It makes me very sad, because otherwise, the guitar has been kept in perfection condition. Kept in a controlled setting since about 2004. Everything else looks beautiful, but I am very distracted by these markings. But I realize nothing good will come from me being upset.

Thanks for all the tips guys, I hope to get in contact with a good luthier and look at options for getting this possibly looking better. Do you guys have any idea about an estimate to how much some repair would cost? I realize this is a very hard question, as I don't even know what needs to be done...

Garthman · #6 01-21-2011, 02:51 AM

A damp cloth over the marks and light pressure with a hot iron sometimes helps - the steam swells the wood and reduces the indentations.

RRuskin · #7 01-21-2011, 08:44 AM

Those marks don't look that bad and have no impact on the sound or integrity of the guitar. In your position, I'd leave things alone but take care to not inflict any more damage as long as the instrument was in my care.

Seijou · #8 01-22-2011, 11:53 AM

Thanks all,

Here is the response I got from James Hood:

"Thanks for the question on the finish.
In a case like this there would be numerous laquer drop fills that would need to be done. All of the impressions could be filled and leveled, wet sanded and buffed.

The cost on a repair like this Depends on how many impressions were to be filled and there location

Also keep in mind that if the drop fill depth exceeds that of the existing finish, the drop fills would possibly appear a bit darker than Tue surrounding finish."

James was very helpful, but I had already heard back from Bill at Telecote guitars and met with him. Bill said the same exact thing.

I know it's would ideally be best to leave it, but it irks me... If I had done the damage myself, I would be okay with it (can't explain why), but really every time I look at it I get frustrated.

Bill is working on very lightly wet-sanding along with some other techniques to see if he can remove the smaller marks. A good number of them go through the finish... It would cost ~250 to drop-fill them (and a very tedious task this is). Bill mentioned that it would take 2-3 days for each drop to dry, then he would have to see if it would require more, etc. It would cost $450 to refinish the guitar, I think neither of these would be worth it for the value of the guitar.

Bill is going to try small procedures first, then we'll take it from there. We may do nothing else afterwards, or we may do something else very minor. I won't do any major work on the guitar though.

Thank you all for your help! I hope it turns out okay.

john bange · #9 01-23-2011, 10:52 AM

I have the same guitar. The cedar top is very thin and soft. I would never consider refinishing. I would think that this could impact the tone and volume.
I have a few small dings on mine that I hate but, I have just learned to live with them. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't see them and cringe.
I have those long "banjo" fingernails also so I had a pickguard installed on mine.

Seijou · #10 01-23-2011, 01:25 PM

John,

You wouldn't even do the minor touch-up? Light wetsanding, buffing, etc?

john bange · #11 01-23-2011, 04:44 PM

I really would not touch it. I would be afraid of the impact on the tone and volume. I am sure that yours is like mine and really booms when you want it to. I would hate to lose that...just me! john

Seijou · #12 01-23-2011, 05:23 PM

The technician who is I met the other day (His name is Bill from Telecote Guitar Works) didn't warn me of any risk as to loss in tone or volume.

He won't get around to it until probably mid this week, or later, so I could try to politely phone him if I have a change of heart... I'm just not sure what to do at this point(?)

I'm most worried since the fingernail marks having pierced the finish... I would like to seal it, even if the visual markings don't go away.

It seemed like the wet-sanding & buffing was step #1. I wanted to discuss what we could do afterwards, but he really wanted to take it step by step. I was hoping, to apply a layer of laquer and seal it up, then level it out.

Bill told me he would have left it alone. But it isn't his guitar, and it's my tolerance for those markings that gets in the way of that.

He doesn't like to do any unnecessary work on the finish, but you could argue, most finish work/touch-up/refinish is...unnecessary, especially these marks don't affect the way the guitar plays at all.

I think that this first step, would remove a lot of the smaller markings and dings. And make the guitar a lot easier to live with (I know I'm being a brat here). Could I be making a huge mistake?

The original owner, being the nice guy that he is, said it would be okay for me to send the guitar back. He'd refund me minus the shipping. So I would have paid for the original shipping, and the shipping back to him, but I would get refunded if it bother me THAT much.

Any advice - Really helpful. Thank you kindly.

john bange · #13 01-23-2011, 06:15 PM

sounds to me like Bill is a pretty stand up guy. But if you just can't live with the marks, guess you gotta do it...one step at a time!
The value of a refinished guitar is never the same as one with original finish.
Myself, I'd just call it patina or mojo but I'ts easy for me to say. Have you considered asking Martin if they would do it? If I could not live with it the way it is, that's what I would do.

Play2PraiseHim · #14 01-23-2011, 10:46 PM

Considering the short amount of time those were madein such small numbers, I would keep it and learn to live with it. Unless you feel confident to find another one.

zimfan · #15 01-28-2011, 04:13 PM

My 1st thought: Your guitar, do as you like with it.
My 2nd thought: What a waste of money. Used bought guitars invariably have scratches, dings, and blemishes. Its called "mojo." What are you going to do after you have those scratches repaired, and then one day it falls over creating fresh dings? In my experience, drop fills leave dark marks over time making it even worse. Refinishing is expensive, risky, and lowers the value of any instrument. Better off leaving it alone, imo.