J-45 alternatives??

[gmr]

I am not sure you will find a better alternative to a J45 than a J45. With the exception of some J45s I have seen at my local GC, all the ones I have played sounded as consistent as any other specific brand/model guitars I have sampled over the years. I think perhaps I am not as discerning as others when it comes to tonal variances within the same make andmodel of guitars. I am pretty darn picky on a playability perspective though. My local shop Gibsons have been consistently well set up. My own J45 was purchased from a quote reputable online source before my local shop became a Gibson dealer. It is a great sounding J45.

[Wade Hampton]

Well, I've played plenty of mediocre Gibson J-45's. I envy you guys who've played nothing but excellent examples, but that has never been my experience: in all the years I've been taking J-45's off music store walls and playing them, I've liked maybe one in four.

I've encountered plenty of great ones, too, but most have been ho hum.

The track record for Gibson Advanced Jumbos has been better for me: I've liked one in two, and had the same ratio for the brief period when Gibson was making the CJ-165, which was a dandy design that sounded as if a Gibson J-185 and a Martin 000-28 had had a secret rendezvous and produced a love child that had the best qualities of both.

The best ratios I've encountered in terms of good ones to mediocre examples of recent Gibson acoustics have been the J-35 and the J-15: I've liked three out of four of those.

Anyway, I recognize that many Gibson guitar owners get irked by the repetition of Internet lore that portrays Gibson acoustic guitars as being hit or miss, but the fact is that ALL all-solid wood instruments are going to vary a great deal from one example to another: that's what you get with solid wood construction. I've played a few gazillion Martin guitars that I didn't care for, either.

So rather than take a fierce partisan approach to any brand of guitars, I prefer to take all the instruments I encounter on their own individual merits, rather than assigning too much credence to scuttlebutt I read online, whether positive or negative.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

PS: I have owned a number of fine Gibson acoustic guitars, and have one I'll never willingly relinquish, a 2001 Advanced Jumbo that formerly belonged to my late friend and mentor John Pearse.

[gmr]

You struck the nail right on the head there, Mr. Hampton.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

Gibson are just as consistent as any Martin or Taylor.

Now there's food for thought.

[rwmct]

Originally Posted by RussL30

I’ve never played a bad J45. Some better than others, but none that weren’t at least pretty good.

I wonder if you and those who say they are hit or miss are not saying the same thing? "Some better than others" with all being "at least pretty good" sounds very much like "hit or miss" to me. The ones that are just pretty good are misses.

[rokdog49]

I think folks with a discerning ear, particularly J45 afficianados, can hear the difference between the good and the less than.
Those who don't relate to the J45 voicing or mojo are not a source for comparison.
That leaves the rest of us who just don't know what to expect when we pick one up and play it.
All the forum narrative about quality issues and the supposed sometimes broad variances between J45's doesn't help.
I for one find it hard to believe there are that many duds.
Then again, to spend that kind of cash on a guitar, it certainly gives pause for consideration.

[Oldguy64]

I’m a huge J-45 fan.
My pocketbook? Not so much.
But I’ve played a lot of the durn things and have observed two things.
1. I’ve rarely played a brand new J45 that I’d give a plugged nickel for.
2. I’ve rarely played a used one that I didn’t want to take home.
Since used guitars were once new, the conclusion I’ve come to is that Gibson must put the most awful strings on them at the factory.
Literally EVERY used one I’ve played has been stellar.

I once played one that was beaten to s***. I didn’t want to touch it much less play it
The pickup had been yanked out. It was filthy. The strings were rusty.
My son insisted that I play it.
So, I’m running thru the intro for “Wanted Dead or Alive” and a woman across the store shopping with her fiancé for his wedding present guitar stopped mid sentence with Steve, the sales guy. She turned and said, “That guitar loves you”!
I still wish I’d found a way to buy that guitar.

[Davis Webb]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Well, I've played plenty of mediocre Gibson J-45's. I envy you guys who've played nothing but excellent examples, but that has never been my experience: in all the years I've been taking J-45's off music store walls and playing them, I've liked maybe one in four.

I've encountered plenty of great ones, too, but most have been ho hum.

The track record for Gibson Advanced Jumbos has been better for me: I've liked one in two, and had the same ratio for the brief period when Gibson was making the CJ-165, which was a dandy design that sounded as if a Gibson J-185 and a Martin 000-28 had had a secret rendezvous and produced a love child that had the best qualities of both.

The best ratios I've encountered in terms of good ones to mediocre examples of recent Gibson acoustics have been the J-35 and the J-15: I've liked three out of four of those.

Anyway, I recognize that many Gibson guitar owners get irked by the repetition of Internet lore that portrays Gibson acoustic guitars as being hit or miss, but the fact is that ALL all-solid wood instruments are going to vary a great deal from one example to another: that's what you get with solid wood construction. I've played a few gazillion Martin guitars that I didn't care for, either.

So rather than take a fierce partisan approach to any brand of guitars, I prefer to take all the instruments I encounter on their own individual merits, rather than assigning too much credence to scuttlebutt I read online, whether positive or negative.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

PS: I have owned a number of fine Gibson acoustic guitars, and have one I'll never willingly relinquish, a 2001 Advanced Jumbo that formerly belonged to my late friend and mentor John Pearse.

It makes sense but it doesn't help the OP much. Now he is going to run around looking for J45 replacements becaiuse you now have said that the quality is hugely variable.

Wade, its not that variable. I think you being picky and he doesn't need picky, he needs to hear, as MOST of us have said, that in general J45s are good guitars. You have said 1 in 4 is worth buying, which means that 75 per cent of them are not. That is not accurate nor helpful.

D.

[rokdog49]

This is exactly what I was referring to in my post.
Just don't know what to believe.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I think folks with a discerning ear, particularly J45 afficianados, can hear the difference between the good and the less than.
Those who don't relate to the J45 voicing or mojo are not a source for comparison.
That leaves the rest of us who just don't know what to expect when we pick one up and play it.
All the forum narrative about quality issues and the supposed sometimes broad variances between J45's doesn't help.
I for one find it hard to believe there are that many duds.
Then again, to spend that kind of cash on a guitar, it certainly gives pause for consideration.

Bingo. Lump me in this category. Heck, I'd never played a J-45 before I ordered mine. I am pretty happy with the sound, but I don't have any clue if mine would be considered a dud or stud to a Gibson aficionado.

I also can't say that I would pay much more than I paid for mine. I bought mine new at a killer used price, so I don't think I'd pay more than $1850 for a new J-45. I think that side by side, and pound for pound, a good Martin dread sounds better than the J-45. But the J-45 does things that a Martin doesn't do, it sounds much more balanced, and it just fits in the mix well.

Where a Martin is a highly trained Opera singer, the J-45 is a soulful blues singer in a smokey bar. I think at this point, the J-45 is becoming my favorite guitar ever. I think that if the J-45 sounded good for my DADGAD stuff, I'd become a single guitar guy. But, my 000-28 fills that spot for now.

I digressed a bit too much, but what I'm trying to convey here is that I ordered a J-45 sight unseen, without any prior Gibson experience, and it has become my go to guitar. I think you are safe to buy a J-45 online as long as you don't have preconceived notions on what to expect.

[John K]

Also consider 50s and early 60s J45s. Some of them are great sounding. Also, Ken Hooper builds a fantastic slope shoulder guitar. Depends on your budget.

[rokdog49]

I think Shades of Blue nailed it.
The J45 is such a polarizing guitar that for some, it's reputation ends up being far greater than what their ears hear when they play one.
All I know is that in songs where one is used by a significant artist, I like that sound.
The question remains whether I can buy one that sounds like what I heard. Who knows.

[1Charlie]

Part of the issue is that J-45's have a distinct tonal personality, a "tubby" fatness that sets them apart from other dreadnoughts. I think the full measure of that tone takes playing time to develop, even more so than others. They can sound tight and lifeless when new, some more than others.

Gibsons, generally, were never intended to ring like a Martin, anyway. I have, for the purpose of comparison, two early '30's all-mahogany parlor guitars, one Gibson and one Martin. The difference in tone between the two brands is already evident, at least in these two examples.

Gibson = "fat, thumpy, warm, enveloping, quick decay".

Martin = "ringing, resonant, projecting, longer decay".

My observation is that the differences in tone are baked into each brand's DNA.

BTW, a great alternative to a new J-45 is a Huss & Dalton DS Crossroads. Fine instrument.

[ManyMartinMan]

Anytime you are thinking about buying an instrument it’s a good idea to sample as many as you can. If one dealer has 6, play them, all. And then some.

[SalFromChatham]

You have gotten many great alternatives - both upscale, and bargain.

I can speak about Gibsons and Eastmans. I have owned them, and I currently own a J45, a J50, and an Eastman E10SS/V.

The Eastmans are really great - their own voice. I keep getting sucked back to them. But they are not a Gibson. If you buy an E10SS you will most likely love the guitar, but it is not a Gibson. If you want a Gibson - get one. They feed the soul for those who want that sound.

If you want an Eastman, they are real nice. But they ain't a Gibson. Man I am repeating myself.