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  #1  
Old 10-14-2012, 05:14 PM
GuitarFundi GuitarFundi is offline
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Default Strum Patterns? Why never explained?

Howdy,

I am constantly trying to learn songs from tablature and they never include the strum patterns. It is either not there at all or they say watch the artist play and you'll figure it out..... Sorry, but I can never figure it out!

If people are going to go to the trouble of creating the tabs Why, O, Why not include the strum patterns?

Am I missing something?
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  #2  
Old 10-14-2012, 05:25 PM
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sweiss sweiss is offline
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I don't know how a strum pattern could be accurately tabbed. To me tab is useless in conveying a sense of rhythm.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:10 PM
Roselynne Roselynne is offline
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I've seen symbols such as down- and up-arrows above tab lines to indicate strums. Sometimes there's a line of musical notes above the tab line -- not on a staff, just a straight line -- to indicate rhythm. Exceptions, not the rule.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:20 PM
GuitarFundi GuitarFundi is offline
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This (I think) is the first verse I am trying to learn... would this make sense?

G (ddu) D (ddu) Am (dduddu)
G (ddu) D (ddu) Am (dduddu)
G (ddu) D (ddu) Am (ddu) C (ddu)Am (ddu) C (ddu)
D (ddu)

It could also be written (actually the way I write it for myself)

Strum Pattern (ddu on G,D,Am,C)

G D Am Am
(lyrics.........................)

G D Am Am
(lyrics.........................)

G D Am C Am C
(lyrics.........................)

D
(lyrics.........................)

On my strum patterns I would put a Capital D or U if the stoke had more authority/punch to it.

I just figured someone has figured out how to communicate all this more effectively.

I had a brilliant English Professor who would remind us that "if you can't write it you don't know it" and I am a firm believer in this and just figured someone somewhere has figured out how to write strumming patterns.
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  #5  
Old 10-14-2012, 06:40 PM
MICHAEL MYERS MICHAEL MYERS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarFundi View Post
Howdy,

I am constantly trying to learn songs from tablature and they never include the strum patterns. It is either not there at all or they say watch the artist play and you'll figure it out..... Sorry, but I can never figure it out!

If people are going to go to the trouble of creating the tabs Why, O, Why not include the strum patterns?

Am I missing something?
Because strumming is best loosely imitated rather than written in stone.
Start with downstrokes then add upstrokes to fill in the gaps at will.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:49 PM
Long813 Long813 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarFundi View Post
This (I think) is the first verse I am trying to learn... would this make sense?

G (ddu) D (ddu) Am (dduddu)
G (ddu) D (ddu) Am (dduddu)
G (ddu) D (ddu) Am (ddu) C (ddu)Am (ddu) C (ddu)
D (ddu)

It could also be written (actually the way I write it for myself)

Strum Pattern (ddu on G,D,Am,C)

G D Am Am
(lyrics.........................)

G D Am Am
(lyrics.........................)

G D Am C Am C
(lyrics.........................)

D
(lyrics.........................)

On my strum patterns I would put a Capital D or U if the stoke had more authority/punch to it.

I just figured someone has figured out how to communicate all this more effectively.

I had a brilliant English Professor who would remind us that "if you can't write it you don't know it" and I am a firm believer in this and just figured someone somewhere has figured out how to write strumming patterns.
Some things can't be written. What about the emphasis? or the timing? Single note strum, 3 note strum. A lot of this can vary as well in the same song. I know you've explained how you would do it, but it just doesn't speak to me.

You can certainly 'speak' it though. Imagine explaining a rhythm to someone by saying "dat da dada dat da dada". Speaking it contains to much more than the simple words on the page.

I'm a believer is seeing is believing Learn best through watching.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:50 PM
guitarlifter guitarlifter is offline
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This is why I like guitar pro. It has the actual sheet music with the staff, notes, and rhythm on it above the tab. It is really nice for knowing what to do when with the sheet music, and then the tab tells you how to do it. There are even letters and numbers that indicate fingering for both the fretting and picking hand in addition to the kind of technique used such as strumming, hammer-on, pull-off, or tapping.
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:52 PM
Long813 Long813 is offline
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Originally Posted by guitarlifter View Post
This is why I like guitar pro. It has the actual sheet music with the staff, notes, and rhythm on it above the tab. It is really nice for knowing what to do when with the sheet music, and then the tab tells you how to do it. There are even letters and numbers that indicate fingering for both the fretting and picking hand in addition to the kind of technique used such as strumming, hammer-on, pull-off, or tapping.
maybe it's just me, but I find GP terrible for rhythm, besides simple down strokes or something.

I also like to be loose with my playing. I don't like to conform to the 'exact-note-strum', which would also make it harder.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:17 PM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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Because rhythm slashes are the most effective way, and most folks posting free internet tabs simply don't know how to do it, as it requires some knowledge of standard notation.

I'm amazed anybody can make sense out of the whole dudu dduudu thing...gives no information as to time...
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  #10  
Old 10-14-2012, 09:37 PM
GuitarFundi GuitarFundi is offline
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Some of us will never be able to watch or see well enough to pick it up and just need instruction even if it is not precise, but rudimentary or basic strumming patterns.

It just seems to me that learning the correct way is not too tight/restrictive it is just correct and still gives the learnee the option to be as "loose" as they want with their own artistic interpretation later.

I only have so much time to practice and play and the deciphering strumming patterns takes up most of my time that I could be actually practicing and I don't want to sit there practicing my heart out on a strumming pattern I know is wrong and does not sound right.

I for a time would "quit" a song when I couldn't figure out the strumming pattern and it got to the point where I "quit" ALL the songs looking for one I could figure out. I have resolved myself to stick with a song until learned (within reason) as a discipline. I just hoped there was some better instruction on strumming patterns out there I was missing that would make my playing time more productive. Being able to post a finished song in the Show and Tell Forum seems to be a Life Goal right now
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:44 PM
Hotspur Hotspur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarFundi View Post
This (I think) is the first verse I am trying to learn... would this make sense?

G (ddu) D (ddu) Am (dduddu)
The problem is that upstrokes and downstrokes don't really have anything to do with the way most players play guitar once you get beyond basic beginner stuff. We don't think that way.

I can play the same pattern as all downstrokes, all upstrokes, or as a mix depending on how I want to emphasize different beats. Heck, if I'm playing three-string voicings of chords, I can play them in a way where I suspect 99% of guitarists couldn't tell from listening if I was playing an upstroke or a downstroke.

And if you can tell from listening, then it doesn't matter.

Get the rhythm right, and strum it however you like the sound of it. '

I literally can't imagine watching a video to figure out a performer's upstrokes and downstrokes. It strikes me as almost absurd to try.

Use your ears. Listen to the rhythm. Upstrokes and downstrokes don't matter.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:39 AM
GuitarFundi GuitarFundi is offline
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I think I can learn more from learning how a talented player uses his right hand than I (very untalented) can learn from making it up as I go, but I appreciate what you are saying.

I think I am a fish out of water asking a bunch of birds how to fly and they just keep telling me to flap my wings (flippers) and it will happen. I think many of you have a skill set that you do not realize is not shared by all of us mere wannabees

I do really appreciate ALL the information as it is educating me to have a better Big Picture of the challenges I face.

I was robbed of music as a child and learned to not give it any notice and when the Music Fairy came one day and said here listen to what you have been missing it was life changing. I am now obsessed with music and yet have little time for it and struggle greatly. Thank You!

I have actually built a few guitars tho, it is easier for me to do that
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:51 AM
Hotspur Hotspur is offline
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Well, the best advice I can give you is that you should be working on your ear.

This means transcribing. It means using the functional ear trainer (download it from miles.be). It means practicing transcribing rhythms. I suspect you're struggling so much because you're simply not attuned to hearing rhythms precisely.

Simple stuff like playing a scale in time with a metronome, then cutting the metronome in half - but playing at the same speed, so that now you get a click every other note. Once you get that down, cut the metronome again - one note in four it gives you a click. Getting this stuff down really tight - so that the click of your pick on the string obscures the sound of the metronome - will make a huge difference.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:57 AM
Roselynne Roselynne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarFundi View Post
I think I can learn more from learning how a talented player uses his right hand than I (very untalented) can learn from making it up as I go, but I appreciate what you are saying.

I think I am a fish out of water asking a bunch of birds how to fly and they just keep telling me to flap my wings (flippers) and it will happen. I think many of you have a skill set that you do not realize is not shared by all of us mere wannabees

I do really appreciate ALL the information as it is educating me to have a better Big Picture of the challenges I face.

I was robbed of music as a child and learned to not give it any notice and when the Music Fairy came one day and said here listen to what you have been missing it was life changing. I am now obsessed with music and yet have little time for it and struggle greatly. Thank You!

I have actually built a few guitars tho, it is easier for me to do that
Your story's very close to mine, Music Fairy and all!

I wouldn't (maybe) go quite so far as to say i was "robbed" as a child, but "cheated" is definitely a fair observation.

To my shock, my ear can actually figure out picking patterns far more easily than strums. Even then, it's a major challenge to get the rhythm right, especially with Travis Picking. Fortunately, I take weekly lessons, so I do get help with that.

I also found a good site for popular strumming patterns. These are used, with rhythmic variations, in many songs of different genres (scroll down for the list):

http://www.guitar-in-a-nutshell.com/...trum-no-1.html

They're trying to sell a training package, of course. Frankly, I can't vouch for the paid stuff, but the free stuff has been most helpful.
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Yairi and Son, Clase 300 (1971) / Yairi Guitar/S. Yairi, Clase 650 (1971)
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Martin 00-15M (2012) / Martin 000-15SM (2011)
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  #15  
Old 10-15-2012, 02:08 AM
GuitarFundi GuitarFundi is offline
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Thanks! I'll look into the ear trainer and that website of strumming patterns.

I actually bought a harmonica to learn thinking that I could mess around with it while driving to help develop my ear to identify notes..... have no idea if that is possible, but it was an excuse to buy a harmonica and with the best intentions of developing my ear
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