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  #1  
Old 12-01-2017, 02:20 PM
lacatedral lacatedral is offline
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Arrow Best room size to record?

Hi, I'm new to the recording subject, I have an electro acoustic guitar (Taylor GS mini e) and the Rode M5 match pair. I was thinking in recording both with the condenser mics and the direct line (the guitar plugged in to the audio interface, a TASCAM MK144 2).

I have a living room which should be something like 5 meters x 5 meters, then a smaller room which should be 2.5 meters x 2.5 meters.
I'm about to set everything, just out of curiosity which room would you say it's better for recording (they are both close to teach other, there are windows but when closed almost nothing from the outside can be heard, the house is next to a very quiet street). I know this is stuff one has to get tested but wondered which would you prefer, a small enviroment or a "large" one.
It's mainly for fingerstyle and some classical guitar.

Thanks.
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Old 12-01-2017, 02:34 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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Depends on the sound you want. Do you want to hear the room + guitar, or only the guitar?

For home recording, I am a fan of close-miking, which takes the room (and it's sound) mostly out of the equation. Unless you won the acoustic lottery and happen to have a fantastic sounding room at home, you will always be limited by the sound of the room. I therefore will 'recreate' ambience/room sound AFTER recording.

If you want to just get the recording without post-production, then the larger space will generally work better. A 7.5 ft x 7.5 ft room is small and likely the sonic character that imparts will not help your sound.
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Old 12-01-2017, 05:15 PM
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Larger room better to record in. However there is no reason you can't do some recordings in each and draw your own conclusions.
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Old 12-02-2017, 06:53 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
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Agreed the larger room should be better.
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:41 AM
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If its a given that both rooms have adequate sound treatment, I would prefer the larger space.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:10 AM
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I just want to make sure I understand this discussion. Following up on Gordon's comment... If you're using close-miking technique, then room size hardly matters. Right? Just add whatever concert hall treatment you want in post-production. I've seen video on this site of guys recording in what looks like a padded phone booth, and the guitar sounds about as good as I can imagine a guitar sounding. Room size and configuration only matter if you want (or can't avoid) some kind of natural ambience in your recording.
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Last edited by AX17609; 12-06-2017 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 12-06-2017, 06:00 AM
macmanmatty macmanmatty is offline
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the best room size to record a guitar would be 59' x 83' x23' tons of reverb and wonderful room modes. But all that being said larger room = better room with length width height all different and not close to each in other in measurement or multiples of each other = better. a 10x10x10 would be horrible to record in due all sides being the same.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:50 AM
AX17609 AX17609 is offline
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Quote:
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the best room size to record a guitar would be 59' x 83' x23' tons of reverb and wonderful room modes.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:41 PM
macmanmatty macmanmatty is offline
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I just used large prime numbers large prime numbers make for great room dimensions
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:08 PM
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Old 12-06-2017, 01:53 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AX17609 View Post
I just want to make sure I understand this discussion. Following up on Gordon's comment... If you're using close-miking technique, then room size hardly matters. Right? Just add whatever concert hall treatment you want in post-production. I've seen video on this site of guys recording in what looks like a padded phone booth, and the guitar sounds about as good as I can imagine a guitar sounding. Room size and configuration only matter if you want (or can't avoid) some kind of natural ambience in your recording.
Unless 100% deadened, all rooms have a sound, regardless of size. Close micing with cardioids does not eliminate the room, especially with super sensitive condensers.

So unless the OP has a way to completely deaden the small room (including the ceiling and floor), the early reflections and any frequency build up due to parallel walls may cause problems (especially in the bass freqs) because the mic will pick them up. In general, the smaller the space, the bigger the potential problem.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:48 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AX17609 View Post
If you're using close-miking technique, then room size hardly matters. Right?
There's a trade-off. The closer you mic the guitar, the more proximity effect you're likely to impart on the track. Some mics, like the Gefell M295, are designed to minimize proximity effect in close mic situations. So it's not as simple as solving your small room problem by close-mic'ing the guitar.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
There's a trade-off. The closer you mic the guitar, the more proximity effect you're likely to impart on the track. Some mics, like the Gefell M295, are designed to minimize proximity effect in close mic situations. So it's not as simple as solving your small room problem by close-mic'ing the guitar.
I record using Gefell M295 microphones but still don't care for the sound I get mic'ing close. I usually mike out a couple of feet or so away from the guitar. Currently record in an about 16' X 18' acoustically treated room.
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:24 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Your biggest winner is how well you understand what you hear and how you work with that to get a good recording. People with a lot of critical listening experience will do better with gear that's not so good.

That normally starts with a good set of headphones that you can come to terms with. I like Sony MDR 7506. Are they flat? No, but I understand them. They make sense in my head. I move mics and players accordingly. When I listen to playback, yes, that's what I wanted to hear!

Jazz recording engineers used to make great recordings with the group all playing together in a relatively small space. Yes, there was bleed, but it didn't matter. That's because they understood the sacred geometrical relationship of multiple mics (mostly figure of eight ribbons) placed properly among the players.

Rudy Van Gelder from Hackensack, NJ was one of these guys. He died last year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Van_Gelder

Reading about him taught me a lot. I had the opportunity to do some Blumlein recording with a pair of AT4080 ribbon mics a few years back. In one session, to prove a point, I had a pedal steel speaker cabinet, two acoustic guitars and a vocalist all going at the same time to two tracks a stereo master if you will.

I positioned the players, paying particular attention first to their guitars. The singer/player was a right hander, so the body of his guitar was a bit to the right. I put the other guitar player to the left to balance that so they were physically "panned" as we recorded. I had some experimentation with the right height for the pair of mics to get the voice to guitar balance right. I also had to deal with relative loudness and had each player move in or out a half step till I got that balance right.

I put the Pedal Steel speaker at 180 degrees, so it was centered, but on the back side of the mics. I then moved it closer or farther until I got the right level. I recorded each mic to a separate track. Afterwards, I panned each track fully and added some 10k shelf and a little reverb.

You can hear the clacking of the pedal steel pedals in the first few moments of the recording. Here.

Additional thoughts:

Square rooms are bad. I think there's data to prove that rooms with a 3:4:5 ratio also suck, but I can't find it right now.

Where you sit in any room makes a difference.

Windows normally are bad unless you are clever with mic placement. Even then, enough glass can make otherwise well thought out equipment and placement a futile effort.

Your space should have the right balance of absorptive and diffusive surfaces.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:45 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lacatedral View Post
I'm about to set everything, just out of curiosity which room would you say it's better for recording...
Theorizing is all well and good, but you won't know until you try it in both.
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