Any other steel-stringers getting the nylon string bug?

[wcap]

Originally Posted by lpa53

......I just bought my first new steel string in years, a Hoffman SJ, ......

We talked for a bit at The Podium one afternoon a few months back. Glad to hear that you found a great guitar that you like and took the plunge. Charlie Hoffman's guitars are works of art.

At the time when we had our conversation, I was obsessing over a few wonderful Martins, but I ended up getting lured away by a Goodall, so my shopping adventure came to a happy ending as well!

[wcap]

Originally Posted by Mark Stone

For me it takes about a 60 second transition period to get my fingers used to the switch, then I'm fine. Maybe if you made the switch more often it would be easier. It's really cool to make the switch in a set, it's like you turn a mood on and off in an audience or group. When I switch from steel to the classical, I transition my fingers by pretending I'm tuning the guitar - after a minute, I'm ready. While I'm "tuning" I say "You know, they told me at the rental place not to touch these knobs up here, but I figured what the heck, it's my buck."

I'm pretty accustomed to switching back and forth among different instruments ranging from banjos, mandolins, narrow and medium width necked steel strings and electrics, and my classical. My left hand just adjusts pretty automatically. In time, this will probably get easier for you too.

What I have found to be the greater issue though is the right hand adjustment. A classical guitar requires quite a different attack than a steel string guitar if you want the classical to really sing. I played classical pretty much exclusively for over 4 years, and got my first good quality steel string this past summer. After playing the steel strings for awhile I had a lot of trouble when switching back to the classical. The sound I was getting was simply awful. I had to play the classical for at least 15 minutes before it started to sing the way I was used to.

But even this right hand adjustment seems to be getting easier now. I've been playing my steel string guitars probably 80 to 90% of the time lately (largely due to their novelty I guess), and the transition back to the classical has tended to be hard. Until last night that is. Last night I got out the classical and my right hand technique was right there from the start, for the first time since I started playing steel strings a lot back in August.

Last night I kept remarking to my daughter (who was hanging out in the room doing something else while I was playing) about what a nice guitar the classical is. I was REALLY enjoying it a lot last night. Though my new steel strings have hogged most of my attention for a number of months now (and I love these guitars), my love affair with my classical guitar is coming back with renewed vigor!

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by wcap

I'm pretty accustomed to switching back and forth among different instruments ranging from banjos, mandolins, narrow and medium width necked steel strings and electrics, and my classical. My left hand just adjusts pretty automatically. In time, this will probably get easier for you too.

What I have found to be the greater issue though is the right hand adjustment. A classical guitar requires quite a different attack than a steel string guitar if you want the classical to really sing. I played classical pretty much exclusively for over 4 years, and got my first good quality steel string this past summer. After playing the steel strings for awhile I had a lot of trouble when switching back to the classical. The sound I was getting was simply awful. I had to play the classical for at least 15 minutes before it started to sing the way I was used to.

But even this right hand adjustment seems to be getting easier now. I've been playing my steel string guitars probably 80 to 90% of the time lately (largely due to their novelty I guess), and the transition back to the classical has tended to be hard. Until last night that is. Last night I got out the classical and my right hand technique was right there from the start, for the first time since I started playing steel strings a lot back in August.

That's an intriguing post! What would you say is the difference in right-hand attack between the classical and the acoustic? I'm the other way round; I began on acoustics and have recently turned my hand to classical.

[stratokatsu]

I have an inexpensive Yamaha classical that I bought just for the different feel and sound. I've had a lot more fun with it than I ever thought I would.

[franchelB]

Originally Posted by ewalling

I still consider myself essentially a steel string player and I love my acoustics; however, I have found that of late my nylon string gets as much playing time as, if not more than, my steel strings. There's something kind of warm and initmate about the feel and sound of nylon string guitars. So far I've done the rounds of crossover guitars, and I think I'll have to think in terms of getting a genuine classical guitar next. Anyone else in danger of being converted?

Yep, I caught that "bug" several years ago when I was wanting a Taylor nylon string...and Taylor wasn't in the process of starting that line yet.

I'm not a classically trained guitar player, but I just loved sound of a Ramirez R1A and I found a Martin nylon string guitar like Willie Nelson's "Trigger"...at the time I didn't have the money. When I did save enough money, I went and bought a Takamine CD132SC. Acoustically or electrically speaking, it really is NOT a bad guitar at all. I just have trouble adjusting to the wide neck.

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by franchelB

Yep, I caught that "bug" several years ago when I was wanting a Taylor nylon string...and Taylor wasn't in the process of starting that line yet.

I'm not a classically trained guitar player, but I just loved sound of a Ramirez R1A and I found a Martin nylon string guitar like Willie Nelson's "Trigger"...at the time I didn't have the money. When I did save enough money, I went and bought a Takamine CD132SC. Acoustically or electrically speaking, it really is NOT a bad guitar at all. I just have trouble adjusting to the wide neck.

Yes, it's the neck that often troubles us acoustic players, isn't it? Since opening this thread I bought an Orpheus Valley Fiesta classical which, although it has the 2" nut, has a slightly slimmer neck than many classicals and that enables me to get my thiumb round on the bass string for some chords. It's a lovely guitar, though; very light and very loud, with the deep rich basses that classicals are reknowned for.

[wcap]

Originally Posted by ewalling

That's an intriguing post! What would you say is the difference in right-hand attack between the classical and the acoustic? I'm the other way round; I began on acoustics and have recently turned my hand to classical.

I don't really know how to put it into words, in part because I don't completely know what it is that I'm doing differently with my right hand.

I guess I can best describe the difference by exaggerating the difference in technique....

With steel strings (playing fingerstyle), I feel more like I'm sort of brushing my nails over the strings, but with nylon strings I need to engage the strings with my nails to a greater degree. This is a gross exaggeration (the truth is that I pretty much use classical guitar right hand technique on my steel strings), but, in general, I sort of feel like I need to connect with the classical guitar in a more intimate way to coax the tones out of it that I want. When this all comes together well, the guitar simply sings. When it does not (e.g. if I play it just the same as how I would play a steel string guitar), the sound is dull and thumpy sounding.

I guess I feel that on the classical guitar I need a more aggressive, sharper attack than with steel strings (even when playing very soft delicate passages - yes, you can have an aggressive sharp attack even when playing quietly - not sure if this will make sense though). I guess its sort of more of a plucking action with the nylon strings?

I'm not sure whether this makes sense or is at all helpful. I should probably have just left this at my first four words...."I don't really know..."



By the way, I also feel like I'm manipulating things more with my left hand too on classical guitar. In particular, I think I'm making a lot more intonation adjustments.

In general, I feel more like I'm operating a finely tuned machine when playing a steel string guitar, but becoming one with the instrument when playing a classical. (again, gross exaggerations, but maybe this sort of gives you the general idea).

[Play2PraiseHim]

It has been a almost 1 year ago since I made the permanent switch from steel to nylon. I am still bitten and loving every minute of it.

[Matt Mustapick]

I play them both about the same amount...maybe just a little more nylon most recently. The funny thing is that I'm equally comfortable playing anything in my little repertoire on either instrument. I really don't think of either of them for being especially for a particular type of music. If I can play it on one, I'm just as happy to play it on the other...and I love them both. This week I've been practicing Bach's Aire for the G String. Sure...it sounds great on classical guitar. But it's not a guitar piece to begin with, so why should anyone assume that it's "better suited" to nylon strings (which didn't exist until modern types, incidentally). In fact the sustain of steel strings really helps you hold on to that long, slow melody.

[Kabalan]

HI
after 40 years of playing guitar(nylon), i got my first steel, 7 years ago,
last week i recorded my new album with my kronbauer steel strings, really
i like a lot the sound of my 3 classical : 2 with eight strings,but since i record
film music, i founded out the amazing tuning of steel strings, even in a cheap
yamaha apx-5(the first i got) something happens with nylon construction,
trying very expensive classical(romanillos, smallman,etc) the tuning is more
exact,cheap classical are terrible in the upper notes, i really enjoy,in my new album, the well balance tuning all over the guitar! yes nylon is more
gentile, easy for phrasing, i steal perform in my concerts(in a mexican jarana double nylon strings) beautiful warm sound,, but takes a time to get
a decent tuning. i can switch between the 2 guitars, it needs a lot of work to get a good sound in both different technical instruments.
Eblen
Eblen

[bohemian]

Aaron Smith

IIRC the "S" as in D-35 S and D-18 S actually meant "standard'
Pre CFM IV of course.. then all things changed


I have owned a couple dozen classical and flamenco guitars including a 191 Ramirez flamenco made by Contreras, a Velasquez a Sanchis Carpio 1A etc

I am currently looking for another classical or classical/crossover..
it has been an interesting search'.. lot so choices.. as always the best are pricey but decent guitars can be had for a modest price.

Also know that SAGA is coming out with a
(not so accurate) recreation of the Maccaferri "Concerte"
Grande Bouche 12 fret nylon string but in Cypress with port orford cedar top.. due out in oct/nov/dec.... the DG-560 Lulo Reinhardt model..

I have limited interest as the original was east indian spruce and a split saddle brdige.. none of which is on the 560, But it should be and interesting guitar

Guild GAD has a crossover nylon cutaway... nicely made and affordable

Breedlove has one as well

[martin000]

Friends,

I started off on a classical guitar and had two before I started using steel strings mostly. It is weird: when you do not have a nylon to play, you really miss it. I picked up a Aria and played it for years and then had a LaPatrie for 2 years and then a Washburn.

Then I bit the bullet...I sold five guitars to buy a Martin 00016SGTNE (cedar top and mahogany back and sides). I have never enjoyed playing a nylon guitar any more as it crosses over so well being the same nut width as my steel string Martins. I played a NS24 and 32 and 72 but nothing comes close...

martin000

[susitna]

I'm looking to trade in a guitar that doesn't fit me, and right now the frontrunner is a nylon crossover. This is odd for a number of reasons. I have small hands (even for a woman), so I wouldn't have imagined wanting a wider fretboard but I find this one fairly comfortable. The other is that I'm working on my strumming technique (which is what made me realize that the dred didn't fit).

Please forgive my ignorance, but my questions are: will I be laughed at for strumming a nylon? And what types of music are associated with nylon strings, other than flamenco?

[Goofball Jones]

Originally Posted by susitna

Please forgive my ignorance, but my questions are: will I be laughed at for strumming a nylon? And what types of music are associated with nylon strings, other than flamenco?

No one laughs at these guys:

Lindsey Buckingham:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2W2di4e4Hc

Jerry Reed and his beat-to-hell, cheap Baldwin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni8KBhnebwE

Buster B.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK9UUCKVw4o

And of course, Willie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7vaYOIKWYY&a

Yes, most of these are finger picking (well, with Willie, he uses a flatpick), you'll see that they also strum in there in certain places. Now as far as strumming a tune like you would with a bigger steel-string, you have to watch your tone. Every time I go into a music store to try out some classical guitars, I get these beautiful notes and tones when I'm fingerpicking. But when I start to strum I can't think of anything else but it sounding like a cheap ukulele or something.

[Play2PraiseHim]

Originally Posted by susitna

I'm looking to trade in a guitar that doesn't fit me, and right now the frontrunner is a nylon crossover. This is odd for a number of reasons. I have small hands (even for a woman), so I wouldn't have imagined wanting a wider fretboard but I find this one fairly comfortable. The other is that I'm working on my strumming technique (which is what made me realize that the dred didn't fit).

Please forgive my ignorance, but my questions are: will I be laughed at for strumming a nylon? And what types of music are associated with nylon strings, other than flamenco?

Some people will always laugh or think negatively for anything that does not fit the norm or is out of the box. But as I have said many times, yu should play what YOU like and LIKE what you play. If you are not pleased with your guitar, you will not play your best.

With that being said, I strum my nylon string guitar. I play nylon exclusively. I lead praise and worship with mine. It does the job just fine. I have a jazzy, funky style. The nylon strings give it a real percussive tone, or it can be very mellow and smooth. You will find it to be very versatile. Nylon string guitars can be used to play anything that you can play on a steel string.
The only rules and limits are set by you, the player.

Check out Rodrigo y Gabriela doing some hard rockin Led Zepplin on nylon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNc5o9TU0t0

And here is Jason Mraz doing his Funky style with his band. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xew_F...eature=related

And Earl Klugh doing his solo jazz thing.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7fF_eRYM5k

And Muriel Anderson doing a little bluegrass band all by HERSELF! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNjAhEz0DGM

I have seen country, jazz, funk, reggae, hip hop, rock, pop, soul,folk, flamenco, classical, praise & worship, bluegrass, bossa nova, and solo fingerstyle all performed on nylon. The possibilities are endless.

Do you have a particuliar maker in mind for your crossover?