#1
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Truss rod refinements, rattle, what is acceptable?
Hi Folks
So the truss rod and its installation is something I have been pondering recently so i wanted to get peoples opinions. On one of my recent necks i did a test, if the neck was held with the truss rod in neutral position, and you give a hard slap to the back of the neck with your hand, you can hear the two way truss rods rattling together. However a 1/4 turn of the allen key and the rattle goes away. This amount of adjustment is not enough to even move the neck it just takes the rods from "neutral" to "engaged". So my question is, is this normal and acceptable? Do the truss rods by definition rattle in the neutral position (im talking about the type where the round rod at the back with opposing threads has heat shrink and there is a flat bar in front of that)? I have read threads about using silicone or caulk in the groove which feels totally wrong to me on several levels. I tried wrapping the truss rod in PTFE tape once and it affected the curve of the rods, it was no longer an even curve, so i removed the tape before gluing the fret board on. So I always revert to my standard way which is to simply install the truss rod into a reasonably tight fitting slot, not an interference fit, but snug, no glue, no tapes. Does anyone know a method or maybe or a type of truss rod to give 100% rattle free results? All the best Ash Nightingale PS ive never had problems or comments back about any of my guitars regarding rattling truss rods however my concern is if a fingerstyle player decides to set up the guitar in 100% neutral truss rod position and proceeds to tap the fretboard its possible it could rattle if they hit it hard enough. So im pondering a way to eliminate this concern in the interest of refinement of future guitars. |
#2
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Hi - I just went through this with a new guitar and eventually decided to return it because in addition to rattling, the truss rod was pretty much stuck and I didn't want to force it. However, in the course of talking to a few people and reading articles and forums, most seemed to think that it was acceptable so long as the rod could be "engaged" with a small turn. Put another way, if my guitar was acting the same as yours, I probably would have kept it and not worried about it.
Hope that helps. (Edit - I just read your PS and see that my answer my not help you at all. Sorry. I was trying to answer your first question about what's normal and acceptable.) |
#3
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I tightly wrap my double rod in electrical tape so it won’t rattle when loose, and it works well enough. Another common fix is to put a dab of silicone caulk between the rods before installation. No amount of rattle is acceptable.
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#4
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If you are using a conventional style two way truss rod where the bottom rod is wrapped in a heat shrink plastic or teflon then the only way it will rattle even in the neutral position is by not putting something between the flat bar and your fret board, unless of course the truss rod slot cut into the neck is oversize
Steve
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Cole Clark Fat Lady Gretsch Electromatic Martin CEO7 Maton Messiah Taylor 814CE |
#5
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Your thoughts on giving the rod just a bit of tension would be the best idea to me. Since you're not actually adding back bow or moving the neck then IMHO what you're doing is adding support to the neck to prevent bowing in the future as time and string pull eventually work their magic. If the rod just at the point where it will resist future movement then that should be a good dose of preventative medicine. I switched to the LMI double-acting rod a while back because I'm making necks with an initial through channel route which permits me to choose either headstock or heel adjustment point based on instrument type and desired access point, plus it makes the rod removable / replaceable in the future should it become necessary. To do that requires a clean channel and sized so the rod can be slipped in or out. That would normally be a recipe for truss rod buzz, but I add that small bit of "pre-tension" as you mention and that prevents the rod from moving in the channel. All that said, I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing. |
#6
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I would never want any rattle at any position or tension. I would also never use silicone or caulk. I use a t-rod made by Mark Blanchard that is similar to the LMI double-action trod. I install a mahogany filler strip above the truss rod that basically removes all the slack in the rod. You don't want to clamp this filler strip to tightly or it can make the trod hard to turn -- some spring clamps will provide more than enough clamping power. After you install the filler strip, tru the neck once again and then glue on the fretboard.
This makes trod removal a nightmare - so make sure the trod is well made - hence, the reason I buy mine from Mark Blanchard. I can rap the back of my neck blanks and I get a nice ring just the same as the neck without the truss-rod. Anything less and I wouldn't be happy. Even the small details can make a difference and that's how I try to approach my builds. |
#7
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#8
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And agreed no amount of rattle is acceptible, i think that was my gut feeling hence starting this thread |
#9
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This could be a solution though to apply gentle clamping force to the filler strip in the middle of the rods where they are likely to rattle. I think this is what Simon Fay suggests in his comment. thanks for chippin in Ash |
#10
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Thanks for your comments Ash Nightingale |
#11
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I have always avoided clamping the middle of the filler strip as i was worried that would change the shape of the rod or grip the back rod too much and stop it from turning as you mention. but if you say you apply light clamping pressure to the middle of the filler strip and this works fine for you then I will definitely have to give that a try. Thanks Ash |
#12
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You are going to love this!
This is the truss rod I took out of a brand new neck made by one of the OEM guitar workshops in China. And, yes, that nut has been welded on so it won't move!!! Obviously, I couldn't get the nut to turn (despite eventually resorting to lube and heat) and so I ripped the neck apart to see what was going on. The relief was actually OK on the instrument but truss rod function was one of the list of checks I did on every instrument and so caught this guitar before it went for sale. I've never had another like it. But why would someone drop this total piece of junk into an otherwise nicely made neck? I did sent some very colourful feedback to the factory who apologetically sent a new guitar. I kept the rod as a memento!
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I'm learning to flatpick and fingerpick guitar to accompany songs. I've played and studied traditional noter/drone mountain dulcimer for many years. And I used to play dobro in a bluegrass band. |
#13
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https://vimeo.com/455334910
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More than a few Santa Cruz’s, a few Sexauers, a Patterson, a Larrivee, a Cumpiano, and a Klepper!! |
#14
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You have a spacer, truss rod nut and an outer collar, the outer collar and spacer are welded together, the truss rod nut is captured in the outer collar, you then weld the assembly to a flat bar. Yours was likely rusted up Steve
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Cole Clark Fat Lady Gretsch Electromatic Martin CEO7 Maton Messiah Taylor 814CE |
#15
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__________________
I'm learning to flatpick and fingerpick guitar to accompany songs. I've played and studied traditional noter/drone mountain dulcimer for many years. And I used to play dobro in a bluegrass band. |