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  #31  
Old 01-15-2021, 05:56 AM
Don Lampson Don Lampson is offline
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I don't quite know if this is the place to post this but it seems like a good portion of forumers here can relate to how I feel and I really want to talk to some of you.. please be kind

For the past 12 years, music has been my profession. I started out mostly teaching and eventually transitioned to live performances / busking for my main source of income. I've been learning music since 12 and poured so much of my lifeblood into this endeavour foolishly believing that just making good music is good enough. Prior to this, I've served in the military, held corporate positions and other miscellany that made me miserable and music always felt like a calling in life. The path hasn't been smooth in the least (which I'm sure some of you guys know) but nothing comes close to what working-class musicians have faced in the last year due to COVID-19.

It's been 10+ months without an income for me and my landlord (a close friend of mine) has been gracious enough to waive the last 6 months of rental and I'm beyond thankful! Since then, I've tried uploading weekly recordings to YouTube, selling tracks on Bandcamp, picking up online music commissions whenever something is available but it's simply just not financially viable. Musicians these days are expected to know video editing, marketing, search engine optimisation, audio mixing, social media, basically whoring yourself to the fullest except just making music and it's so draining just trying to keep up on every front. The only music companies in my country hiring now are classical conglomerates like Yamaha with minimum requirements of Grade 8 in ABRSM instrumental certifications which I do not have.

I truly hate how music is expected to be a free commodity these days when it's so costly (financially, timewise, physically and emotionally) to make. Music professionals have to basically rely on charity through Patreon and the like just to keep themselves from starving. Recently, my local arts council announced that no live performances will be allowed anytime soon and all busking activities from here on out will be extremely heavily regulated and restricted to individuals they hand-pick. This basically spells the end and collapse of the small local music industry.

Today may have been the breaking point, I cried and told my wife that this may be the end of this career. I dread the thought of going to an office environment with an entry-level position. I know it's pride I may have to put aside for the sake of survival but it's been so so difficult and so so painful. I don't quite know why I'm ranting here but some of you may be facing the same pain right now and it may be good to know we are not alone in this. Thanks to whoever is still reading at this point and may life be kind to you.

You should have looked for some other way of survival months ago! Why do you feel so entitled to be a successful musician, and expect your friend / landlord, to subsidize the undertaking? Doing nothing, simply because your dream career isn't viable at the present time makes no sense at all! Find a "day job", and pursue music as a part time endeavor when you find the opportunity, just like countless other musicians do!

Don
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  #32  
Old 01-15-2021, 09:29 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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I do feel sorry for any musicians who relied on their music careers for their sole income.
I know people who did and have had to take retail jobs to pay the bills. People I think of as 'professionals'. One told a story on his blog about working at a store (back around Thanksgiving) and a customer came up to the counter wearing one of HIS BAND'S t-shirts - such a reminder of where he was, fiscally, at that point. (No, he didn't say 'hey that's my band!')

Relying on 'donations', or low-cost streaming shows will not work for any but the most-established artists who have a sold core of 'super fans' - these are the people who attend every local show they can, buy every album release and other merch, etc. Unfortunately, this is a small percentage of music fans, which itself is a small percentage of the total population.

The good news is that live performing WILL come back. Will the pay scales be the same (actually already dismal) or lower or better? Will there be more opportunities? Who knows?
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  #33  
Old 01-15-2021, 11:24 AM
Fogducker Fogducker is offline
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There are LOTS of great musicians/writers etc. sleeping in their cars (The Nashville Motel) tonight.

George Strait was an excellent dish washer---------just saying!

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  #34  
Old 01-15-2021, 03:58 PM
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I understand the feelings of the OP. I don't mean to minimize them. Often in many peoples lives things happen that are not what one would hope for. There are allot of people right now that are out of jobs and the future they were working towards is looking bleak. The virus is a life changing event for all of us and some more than others.

I had an older gentlemen that came to work for me. In his history he had several good jobs with good companies. So why was he starting at the bottom with me? Every company that he had worked for had been sold, went out of business or moved their factory as in consolidating. Nothing in his work history was his fault or because of his wrong doing. Such is life. Be grateful for moments and the good things.
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  #35  
Old 01-15-2021, 04:57 PM
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In the 15th century ( The Renaissance )wealthy patrons would fund artists so that they could pursue their passion without financial concerns.
Obviously, times have changed.
Today, the vast majority of painters, sculptors, musicians, writers, poets(artists of all flavors) have day jobs that allow them some sense of financial security. They continue to pursue their art form the best they can because it makes life worth living. It’s the best most of us can do.
It’s not a sign of weakness to have to get a day job. Welcome to the club.
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  #36  
Old 01-15-2021, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by necrome View Post
[SIZE="2"] Musicians these days are expected to know video editing, marketing, search engine optimisation, audio mixing, social media, basically whoring yourself to the fullest except just making music and it's so draining just trying to keep up on every front.
Music has always been a really tough way to make a living, and with the current situation, it's tougher. I think you have everyone's sympathies here.

The internet's no place to get career advice :-), but let me throw out my 2 cents. There's so much one could say about this....

First, a story. I was talking to a pretty well-known head of a guitar conservatory a while back, and he was telling me how amazingly good his students were. I asked what career paths they had. He said "virtually none". He said a few would go on to teach, most would just go on to completely different careers, and just play as a hobby. He said he had 1 or 2 that would probably make it as career performers. "Because they're the best players?", I asked. "No", he said, "because they're ones who have no other options - playing is all they can do. Music is so hard as a career that anyone who has any other viable option will quit".

Second, your comment above about "whoring yourself". I think maybe - just guessing here - you have an idealized view of what any job is about. Forget music, think of doctors or lawyers or whatever. I suspect people go into medicine dreaming that they'll spend their days performing life saving operations, or discovering new medicines or .... My Dr recently went down to seeing patients 3 days a week. I asked if he was phasing out, moving toward retirement. He said "oh no, I work 6 days a week, it's just that the other 3 days are spent on paperwork". And of course the 3 days he's taking patients aren't spent doing something amazingly exciting - I suspect mostly he's spending the bulk of his time listening to people complaining about aches and pains... *Any* job is like that. Unless you're flipping burgers or digging ditches - then maybe you get to do that task all day every day.

With music, you have a couple of choices. You can choose to get a day job and play music for fun, or semi-pro. Having done it both ways, I personally think that's a great option. You get to eat, and you get to make your music on your terms. You don't have to take that bad-paying gig 2 hours away at the biker bar singing Margeritaville, unless that's what you enjoy doing! You can afford nice guitars. Of course that may mean "whoring yourself" out to a non-musical job just to make a living. Of course, there's always the option of finding a job that's at least related to music, even if it isn't about you literally playing music - best of both worlds. Harder, but possible in theory. Keep in mind that there are *lots* of well-known and successful musicians who have day jobs, and I'd bet that nearly all of them have at least had them at various points.

Or you can decide you absolutely have to be 100% a musician, in which case you need to do the things that a modern musician does - that includes learning about video, recording, promotion, social media, teaching, etc, etc - it's not 100% playing, but it's directly in support of your music. There's way more to music than being a performer, and it's always been that way. You basically have to decide if you'd rather spend your non-playing time in a "day job" (that potentially pays a lot better and is more secure), or if you want to spend it doing musically-related activities. I don't think of time spent recording, mixing, editing videos, etc as "whoring", I think of it as part of the process of producing music. Now, can you support yourself by doing those things? Not at all clear...

Of course, this is all kind of long term stuff to think about. Right now, I'd say you need a job to pay your rent.
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  #37  
Old 01-15-2021, 08:16 PM
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^^^^^
What a great post!
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  #38  
Old 01-15-2021, 08:34 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Hi Necrome,

I'm sorry for the situation you find yourself in today in the midst of this worldwide pandemic.

I think you have received some good advice here. I enjoyed reading Bob Womack and Doug Young's comments, in particular, and I think they speak from a pretty authoritative point of view.

Doug's comment from his music conservatory friend -- "Music is so hard as a career that anyone who has any other viable option will quit" -- I think is true. I remember reading a very similar comment from Janis Ian once. I hope it's helpful to know from this comment how very difficult this path is, even though I already know you know this from your initial post.

I have a degree in mechanical engineering and my wife a degree in elementary education. Before I started on my engineering career as I was graduating I remember a group of friends really advised me strongly to go to Los Angeles and make a living out of music. But I was ready to get married and wanted a stable life for our family and so continued on into engineering. I retired about 5 years ago when I was age 68.

However, my wife and I did start a music company and we did some touring for about 7 years and made decent money doing community concerts and school programs. I never wanted to give up on music and I bet you won't either.

I wish you the best. Changes are hard, but most of use have learned that we are confronted with the need to change often in our lives. As an engineer I had to learn major new skills over and over as I progressed through my career. It's just part of the game, though I know it's tough every time you have to go through the stress.

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  #39  
Old 01-16-2021, 08:06 AM
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Necrome, very sad to hear your news. Nothing wrong with getting a different day job to pay the bills and continue with your music profession on the side. Things could very well pick up again in your favor.

It might take 12 months but you have 12 years of experience which will help you get back on your feet quickly when you make that call.

Keep us updated with what happens. We're all rooting for you.
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  #40  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
. "Because they're the best players?", I asked. "No", he said, "because they're ones who have no other options - playing is all they can do. Music is so hard as a career that anyone who has any other viable option will quit". .
Historically this has been where allot of America's music history has come from. I find once one looks past the romantic aspects of many in our music history you find that they found ways to make a buck through their music and used every trick they could to survive. Often they were the type of people that were entertaining and charming but with allot of fallibilities and far from responsible. It's also why so many original blues players were blind. Music was where they could make the most money. There wasn't much else they could do.
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  #41  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:42 AM
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Once again a very interesting thread here on the AGF. I sympathize with anyone finding a life dream blocked, but there is a lot of good advise here in this conversation. I find myself wondering about how many millions of musicians have walked this earth and how very very few ever made much if any money doing it. I am grateful that I love playing for my dog and my own pleasure.
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  #42  
Old 01-16-2021, 11:54 AM
necrome necrome is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Music has always been a really tough way to make a living, and with the current situation, it's tougher. I think you have everyone's sympathies here.

The internet's no place to get career advice :-), but let me throw out my 2 cents. There's so much one could say about this....

First, a story. I was talking to a pretty well-known head of a guitar conservatory a while back, and he was telling me how amazingly good his students were. I asked what career paths they had. He said "virtually none". He said a few would go on to teach, most would just go on to completely different careers, and just play as a hobby. He said he had 1 or 2 that would probably make it as career performers. "Because they're the best players?", I asked. "No", he said, "because they're ones who have no other options - playing is all they can do. Music is so hard as a career that anyone who has any other viable option will quit".

Second, your comment above about "whoring yourself". I think maybe - just guessing here - you have an idealized view of what any job is about. Forget music, think of doctors or lawyers or whatever. I suspect people go into medicine dreaming that they'll spend their days performing life saving operations, or discovering new medicines or .... My Dr recently went down to seeing patients 3 days a week. I asked if he was phasing out, moving toward retirement. He said "oh no, I work 6 days a week, it's just that the other 3 days are spent on paperwork". And of course the 3 days he's taking patients aren't spent doing something amazingly exciting - I suspect mostly he's spending the bulk of his time listening to people complaining about aches and pains... *Any* job is like that. Unless you're flipping burgers or digging ditches - then maybe you get to do that task all day every day.

With music, you have a couple of choices. You can choose to get a day job and play music for fun, or semi-pro. Having done it both ways, I personally think that's a great option. You get to eat, and you get to make your music on your terms. You don't have to take that bad-paying gig 2 hours away at the biker bar singing Margeritaville, unless that's what you enjoy doing! You can afford nice guitars. Of course that may mean "whoring yourself" out to a non-musical job just to make a living. Of course, there's always the option of finding a job that's at least related to music, even if it isn't about you literally playing music - best of both worlds. Harder, but possible in theory. Keep in mind that there are *lots* of well-known and successful musicians who have day jobs, and I'd bet that nearly all of them have at least had them at various points.

Or you can decide you absolutely have to be 100% a musician, in which case you need to do the things that a modern musician does - that includes learning about video, recording, promotion, social media, teaching, etc, etc - it's not 100% playing, but it's directly in support of your music. There's way more to music than being a performer, and it's always been that way. You basically have to decide if you'd rather spend your non-playing time in a "day job" (that potentially pays a lot better and is more secure), or if you want to spend it doing musically-related activities. I don't think of time spent recording, mixing, editing videos, etc as "whoring", I think of it as part of the process of producing music. Now, can you support yourself by doing those things? Not at all clear...

Of course, this is all kind of long term stuff to think about. Right now, I'd say you need a job to pay your rent.

Again, much love to my fellow AGFers for replying and encouraging me in this thread! Sorry I wasn't too clear about what I meant when musicians are "whoring" themselves these days. I was referring to the fact that most so-called "musicians" spend more time posting selfies, what they are having for dinner and other meaningless dross on Instagram instead of being better musically. This is coming from having watched many recent live performances of acclaimed acts and realising a majority of them cannot even pitch accurately. Part of it has to do with our background of growing up with legit musicians from the 60s to 80s and it's very discouraging and frustrating to watch what's happening now.

A good portion of the performing professionals in my area didn't play this game but it is near impossible to be heard now without at least doing it to some degree, especially in this pandemic. Watching many karaoke singers rise up and people who dedicate their lives to the craft go hungry does not sit well with me. Or maybe it's just part of the game as old as humanity itself?

Last edited by necrome; 01-16-2021 at 12:25 PM.
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  #43  
Old 01-16-2021, 12:02 PM
Fogducker Fogducker is offline
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I use to go to quite a few music festivals in the summers, BG, Dulcimer, fiddle etc. I jammed with eye surgeons, college professors, plumbers, roofers, engineers (Of all stripes) teachers, dirt contractors et al. There were several really good musicians but they all seemed to know the economics of life.

The only full time musicians (Other than the headliners) were the poor devils that were on those buses that fired up after the last shows and traveled to the next venue, to play the same play list wearing the same tired "uniforms" after manning the card tables selling the CD's, bumper stickers, t-shirts etc. during the breaks. Once in awhile they come back to the camp ground and play along with us. You'd hear about their various woes with the groups but all seemed to be at best resigned to their situation and in a few years you'd run into them playing some at bars, weddings etc. and doing their "day jobs" to make a living and provide health care for their families. When you think about it even being the headliner wasn't all that great.

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  #44  
Old 01-16-2021, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by necrome View Post
Again, much love to my fellow AGFers for replying and encouraging me in this thread! Sorry I wasn't too clear about what I meant when musicians are "whoring" themselves these days. I was referring to the fact that most so-called "musicians" spend more time posting selfies, what they are having for dinner and other meaningless dross on Instagram instead of being better musically. This is coming from having watched many recent live performances of acclaimed acts and realising a majority of them cannot even pitch accurately. Part of it has to do with our background of growing up with legit musicians from the 60s to 80s and it's very discouraging and frustrating to watch what's happening now.

A good portion of the performing professionals in my area didn't play this game but it is near impossible to be heard now without at least doing it to some degree, especially in this pandemic. Watching many karaoke singers rise up and people who dedicate their lives to the craft go hungry does not sit well with me. Or maybe it's just part of the game as old as humanity itself?
...no boss....you’re way off base....most successful players that actually make a living playing music are not spending more time posting selfie’s of themselves and dinner on Instagram....i know quite a few of them personally...many of whom you might recognize by name....for sure social media presence is a huge factor for gigging musicians....it’s the way of the world now....but at the end of the day if you don’t have the chops to go with business savvy you are not likely to achieve any acclaim....fwiw I couldn’t tell you the name of a single Karaoke singer ...never mind one who has risen to some type of successful artist...not that I follow Karaoke....

...otoh...I could easily list a hundred successful singer songwriter types that have made a decent if not opulent living at it....they’re singing the blues with the rest of us these days....but the music supporting community is ready to welcome them back as soon as we get past this pandemic....fear not...live music will be back....
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Old 01-16-2021, 01:16 PM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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I’m pretty sure I can’t relate to what you’re going through because I not only was never in the position you’re in, but also would have never wanted to be.
Even the most gifted performers I have known over the years have never done much more than fed and clothed themselves and they all worked at other jobs to put a roof over their heads when not on the road. To this day, I still can’t understand what drove them to be so dedicated but I understood we are all different.
Often in life we are faced with the “end of something”. It’s how we respond to it that makes us who and what we will become going forward.
My suggestion is that you take some time and reflect on your chosen path and your journey thus far. These changes can be temporary, permanent, or just altered. You don’t need to assume this is the end of something when it is in fact the beginning of something else. That something else may well turn out to be better.
Best wishes for your future.

A short story...my nephew Tommy wanted to be a “session drummer” in Nashville. He was extremely proficient and versatile and at the young age of 17 left home and went there. He lived with others of his ilk and barely got by, playing in big time cover bands with lots of gigs and hoping to get noticed. He networked all over the place and made a ton of connections but it just never happened.
At 22 he decided that his love for drumming and his hope for a career in music was not worth it anymore.
He went back home, went to school, got a business degree and now he does very well as a financial adviser.
I only bring this up because he told me recently he may give his dream another shot someday after he raises his family.
Ya’ ever know...it could happen.
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