New MARTIN went BOOM off the UPS Truck 12/6 Update - Page 6

JerryM · #76 10-30-2019, 10:12 AM

I have never heard of UPS covering anything without a fight and using FedEx is a better bet in my experience. Unless a pro shipper who is one of UPS's stores does the packing who is to say how it was packed once opened? It's not really insurance in the true sense of the word and they charge plenty for it.....
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jimmy bookout · #77 10-30-2019, 10:42 AM

I'm confused. What is the OP trying to get out of the shipper? I assume the case replacement only?

jimmy bookout · #78 10-30-2019, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancebo

Ted couldn’t sell that as new. And I get his point. How much is someone willing to pay for that guitar when he disclosed that it survived some sort of fall that damaged the case but cleared an inspection from a luthier. (Assuming it would). There is a price for everything.

The guitar is NOT damaged, correct? The case did it's job. There is no reason the guitar isn't still "new".

Vancebo · #79 10-30-2019, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brencat

Was it your intent to keep the Martin and sell the D2HT if you liked it better ? I'm just confused by your last sentence about it not being something you needed.

Nope. I had played one in Dallas, Tx when I was there a couple of months ago. It was quite a player and I was impressed. It haunted me ever since. I thought it was worth checking out again and comparing one next to my Collings. They are different but not different enough that I needed to keep it. It was something I could do without. Now neither LA Guitar or I wants it.

I am not criticizing LA Guitar, I understand his side. I shipped it back expecting a full refund and he received a damaged case and a guitar that he doesn't want to sell as new. I understand that the burden of proof falls on to me. I want to proove I took the necessary steps to send a package in it's Factory provided box and padding.

RP · #80 10-30-2019, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancebo

...I understand that the burden of proof falls on to me. I want to prove I took the necessary steps to send a package in it's Factory provided box and padding.

I'm sorry for this rather expensive dilemma that you face. Unfortunately, without a UPS employee stepping forward and saying that he/she dropped the box or a credible witness testifying to that happening, it's really pretty tough to prove negligence on their part. Despite the box being packed to Martin's standards, it doesn't sound like it was packed to UPS standards, so they can prove "negligence" on your part.

I'm not trying to be judgmental; I've packed and shipped a bunch of guitars over the past ten years and had a similar occurrence once. In my case, there was minor guitar damage that I paid for after UPS refused my claim. The repair made the damage almost invisible, but I still pointed it out when I advertised and subsequently sold the guitar. I would assume that UPS would use the following as proof of inadequate packing:

Fill in the holes around the guitar. Once you’ve packed your guitar in the case, there will naturally be a bit of empty space. You’ll want to reduce the chances of your instrument moving around inside the case during shipping by using cushioning material like bubble wrap or air cushioning to fill the gaps. It’s also important to pay attention to supporting the neck of the guitar, which can be easily damaged.

619TF · #81 10-30-2019, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP

I'm sorry for this rather expensive dilemma that you face. Unfortunately, without a UPS employee stepping forward and saying that he/she dropped the box or a credible witness testifying to that happening, it's really pretty tough to prove negligence on their part. Despite the box being packed to Martin's standards, it doesn't sound like it was packed to UPS standards, so they can prove "negligence" on your part.

I'm not trying to be judgmental; I've packed and shipped a bunch of guitars over the past ten years and had a similar occurrence once. In my case, there was minor guitar damage that I paid for after UPS refused my claim. The repair made the damage almost invisible, but I still pointed it out when I advertised and subsequently sold the guitar. I would assume that UPS would use the following as proof of inadequate packing:

Fill in the holes around the guitar. Once you’ve packed your guitar in the case, there will naturally be a bit of empty space. You’ll want to reduce the chances of your instrument moving around inside the case during shipping by using cushioning material like bubble wrap or air cushioning to fill the gaps. It’s also important to pay attention to supporting the neck of the guitar, which can be easily damaged.

That "excuse" would make sense IF it were the guitar that were damaged.

Vancebo · #82 10-31-2019, 07:31 AM

Got a call yesterday from what looks to be a third party package adjuster from Fort Worth Texas. She sent me an email asking for me to take specific photos. I did that and off they went. Pretty easy actually.

They will see a damaged case, damaged box and what looks to be a perfectly fine guitar. They will of course be puzzled why the guitar doesn’t look damaged.

I will let it all play out.

Osage · #83 10-31-2019, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

The guitar is NOT damaged, correct? The case did it's job. There is no reason the guitar isn't still "new".

Imagine if you will that a new guitar had the equivalent of Carfax and you were in the market for this model. Would you buy one that has been sent all over the country by multiple people to multiple places and had damage claim filed on it? Oh, and it doesn't have the original case because it got damaged... Between that and a guitar that is actually new, which would you choose?

Ted at LA Guitar Sales has built a well deserved reputation on being a straight shooter and he's not going to sell this guitar as new, neither would any other reputable dealer. The guitar may be perfectly fine but it is no longer new.

To the OP, I hope you get it sorted. I will never ship anything UPS again after dealing with their claims department. They destroyed an amp, that the UPS store had packed for me, and denied my claim. I fought it and lost. I literally will never use them again. USPS all the way with me now.

RP · #84 10-31-2019, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osage

...I will never ship anything UPS again after dealing with their claims department. They destroyed an amp, that the UPS store had packed for me, and denied my claim. I fought it and lost. I literally will never use them again. USPS all the way with me now.

That's interesting. Although I've always done the packing myself, others have posted that packing by UPS is a guarantee that a damage claim will be honored...

619TF · #85 10-31-2019, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP

That's interesting. Although I've always done the packing myself, others have posted that packing by UPS is a guarantee that a damage claim will be honored...

Nope. You have to buy THEIR insurance and only at certain locations. Of course there's many other restrictions but those were the big two that jumped out at me right away here:
https://www.theupsstore.com/about/pack-ship-guarantee

Vancebo · #86 10-31-2019, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osage

Imagine if you will that a new guitar had the equivalent of Carfax and you were in the market for this model. Would you buy one that has been sent all over the country by multiple people to multiple places and had damage claim filed on it? Oh, and it doesn't have the original case because it got damaged... Between that and a guitar that is actually new, which would you choose?

Ted at LA Guitar Sales has built a well deserved reputation on being a straight shooter and he's not going to sell this guitar as new, neither would any other reputable dealer. The guitar may be perfectly fine but it is no longer new.

To the OP, I hope you get it sorted. I will never ship anything UPS again after dealing with their claims department. They destroyed an amp, that the UPS store had packed for me, and denied my claim. I fought it and lost. I literally will never use them again. USPS all the way with me now.

So, please tell. When you fought it. What was the process? I am at the second level now. Well, I mean I am speaking to an independent adjuster that handles packing claims for UPS. I expect to get denied. At this point until they try and figure out why the guitar is not damaged but I am seeking a full refund.

Your right about Ted. He isn’t going to sell that guitar as new. We both agree that the loss is on UPS. It is my responsibility to jump through hoops until there are no more hoops to jump through. I don’t know how this will turn out but I bet I will have to work for it.

ManyMartinMan · #87 10-31-2019, 07:37 PM

Well regardless of what anyone wants, UPS is unlikely to pay anything for a guitar that isn't damaged. They have no obligation to do so. Vancebo, if Ted won't take the guitar back you will likely have a new guitar with a new case as I believe that UPS will replace the case in the end. They are simply not obliged to offer any compensation for an undamaged item.

The advantage of great try-and-return policies is the ability to sample an item, or 3, and return what you decide not to purchase. The downside is if the instrument is scratched or marred in any way while in transit or in the possession of the sampler it becomes the property of he/she who tried it out. I would never try a guitar and attempt to return it without private instrument insurance that covers transportation and and loss of value.

Vancebo · #88 10-31-2019, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

Well regardless of what anyone wants, UPS is unlikely to pay anything for a guitar that isn't damaged. They have no obligation to do so. Vancebo, if Ted won't take the guitar back you will likely have a new guitar with a new case as I believe that UPS will replace the case in the end. They are simply not obliged to offer any compensation for an undamaged item.

The advantage of great try-and-return policies is the ability to sample an item, or 3, and return what you decide not to purchase. The downside is if the instrument is scratched or marred in any way while in transit or in the possession of the sampler it becomes the property of he/she who tried it out. I would never try a guitar and attempt to return it without private instrument insurance that covers transportation and and loss of value.

I guess you might be right in the end. I do have a mighty fine insurance policy and I just happened to have my very insurance adjuster in my house last week. Pure fluke. I asked her about it. She said my policy would cover it and they would get their money back from UPS. It would cost me a $500 deductible. I will use it if I have to.

ManyMartinMan · #89 10-31-2019, 08:20 PM

It's good they'll cover it but an instrument policy doesn't usually have a deductible. It makes it relatively worthless because many times the damage to a guitar is less than that deductible. What it sounds like to me is a homeowner's policy which I've never found to be mighty fine for anything except the insurance company. Instrument policies cover shipping, damage, full loss, partial loss, diminished value after repair, theft, fire, flood..... no deductible.

A $500 deductible won't even get you to a new case. Hopefully, UPS will cover the case and you'll be whole without any deductible.

k_russell · #90 11-01-2019, 05:59 AM

If UPS had an issue with how the guitar was packaged, UPS should have addressed that issue before they agreed to ship it.

In my field service work with medical equipment, I often shipped packages insured for over $2000.00. When I wanted to place a insurance value over $500.00, a UPS staff member would inspect the exterior packaging and, and sometimes, open the box to check the interior packing and condition of the item.

UPS agreed to ship your guitar knowing it's insured value. UPS had the opportunity to refuse shipping your guitar. If the damage occurred during the shipping process, UPS is responsible.