Tube amps- am I missing out?

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by joeappel

I've learned a lot from Lyle's videos. There's a lot of great info so much of which goes over my head. But mostly I put them on when I'm trying to fall asleep because his voice is so soothing

You ever contact him and tell him that?

[joeappel]

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

You ever contact him and tell him that?

Ha, no! But I bet I'm not the only one who does that.

[LFL Steve]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

My thoughts:

• Go to your friendly local big-box store with your Vox VT15 and one of your guitars;
• Plug into a Vox AC10 and do a side-by-side comparison with the Vox AC setting on your modeler, both clean and overdrive, at bedroom levels (use the gain/volume controls on the AC10 to achieve the tone/volume you need);
• Report back to us and tell us which one you like better...

This is really great advice. Direct A:B to your reference amp.

Another line of research worth investigating is Nu Tube. Remember the early calculators that had silver-blue glowing display digits? Those are vacuum fluorescent tubes; actual miniature tubes.

https://www.korgnutube.com/en#:~:tex...0Noritake%20Co.


So you get the sound of tubes without the heat, weight, bulk, etc.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by LFL Steve

This is really great advice. Direct A:B to your reference amp.

Another line of research worth investigating is Nu Tube. Remember the early calculators that had silver-blue glowing display digits? Those are vacuum fluorescent tubes; actual miniature tubes.

https://www.korgnutube.com/en#:~:tex...0Noritake%20Co.


So you get the sound of tubes without the heat, weight, bulk, etc.

Around 60 years ago I had someone give me several of the first electronic "hearing aids" that had what looked like a small radio that was worn in a front pocket and had a plug in earpiece which was worn in one ear.
I was too young to actually do anything useful with them, but I took a few of them apart and was surprised to see tiny tubes that actually were used in the electronics. These pre-dated the transistor by a few years. The tubes were about an inch long and the diameter of a pencil.

I remember mine were "Zenith Royals" as shown in THIS historical hearing aid article.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Around 60 years ago I had someone give me several of the first electronic "hearing aids" that had what looked like a small radio that was worn in a front pocket and had a plug in earpiece which was worn in one ear.
I was too young to actually do anything useful with them, but I took a few of them apart and was surprised to see tiny tubes that actually were used in the electronics. These pre-dated the transistor by a few years. The tubes were about an inch long and the diameter of a pencil.

I remember mine were "Zenith Royals" as shown in THIS historical hearing aid article.

Probably should have sharpened the pencil first. Now that you have me looking at it, maybe I should design a preamp and mate it with a Class D amp. I have a few more somewhere...

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by printer2

Probably should have sharpened the pencil first. Now that you have me looking at it, maybe I should design a preamp and mate it with a Class D amp. I have a few more somewhere...

Yes, that's like the ones I remember. The article about the hearing aids says they used a 45 volt battery. That might be difficult to find now...

[Aspiring]

I have two nice tube amps that I think sound great. When I play electric it is typically clean or edge of breakup.

That said they mostly collect dust with my Fractal stuff around the house. With presets and the ability to just flip a switch and be consistent it is so much easier to just pick up the guitar and play with a tone that I like.

Ironically enough I learned a heck of a lot about how to adjust my real tube amps for a tone I like from the fractal and fractal forums.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Yes, that's like the ones I remember. The article about the hearing aids says they used a 45 volt battery. That might be difficult to find now...

Not an issue if you're using 120V/240V AC - and a lithium-ion battery pack with the requisite voltage could be easily designed/fitted to a busker-type amp...

Originally Posted by printer2

...Now that you have me looking at it, maybe I should design a preamp and mate it with a Class D amp.

Maybe you should: a 200W full-featured combo with a net weight on either side of the 20-pound mark (similar to the Quilter offerings but with a multi-tube front end) could be a big seller - if you can still source the tubes in quantity...

Originally Posted by LFL Steve

...Another line of research worth investigating is NuTube. Remember the early calculators that had silver-blue glowing display digits? Those are vacuum fluorescent tubes; actual miniature tubes...

So you get the sound of tubes without the heat, weight, bulk, etc.

Speaking as the owner of an MV50AC micro-head, I've been wondering for the last few years why Vox never released NuTube-based versions of the iconic AC-Series combos, at a price/weight intended to compete heads-up with Fender's ToneMaster blackface line. Although I've played through a fair number of AC tube amps over the years and love the tone with my Gretsch guitars, I've always been put off by the weight (nearly 50 pounds for the AC15, over 70 for the original AC30/54 for the stripped-down 1x12" version): a NuTube AC15 that scales in somewhere in the very low 20's and an AC30 at around ten pounds more, with modern features similar to the ToneMasters (power scaling, DI out, IR cab modeling) and comparably priced, could be big sellers to those for whom the "tube" aspect (versus Fender's all-digital platform) and/or substantial weight reduction are primary considerations...

[perttime]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

...
Speaking as the owner of an MV50AC micro-head, I've been wondering for the last few years why Vox never released NuTube-based versions of the iconic AC-Series combos, at a price/weight intended to compete heads-up with Fender's ToneMaster blackface line. ...

Vox does have the Mini Superbeetle which is a compact NuTube amp that is supposed to behave much like AC-series amps.
https://voxamps.com/type/nutube/

[LFL Steve]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Speaking as the owner of an MV50AC micro-head, I've been wondering for the last few years why Vox never released NuTube-based versions of the iconic AC-Series combos, at a price/weight intended to compete heads-up with Fender's ToneMaster blackface line. Although I've played through a fair number of AC tube amps over the years and love the tone with my Gretsch guitars, I've always been put off by the weight (nearly 50 pounds for the AC15, over 70 for the original AC30/54 for the stripped-down 1x12" version): a NuTube AC15 that scales in somewhere in the very low 20's and an AC30 at around ten pounds more, with modern features similar to the ToneMasters (power scaling, DI out, IR cab modeling) and comparably priced, could be big sellers to those for whom the "tube" aspect (versus Fender's all-digital platform) and/or substantial weight reduction are primary considerations...

Steve, yes, exactly!

Vox was on this path, but isn’t now. Their original modeling line used a miniature tube in a hybrid circuit, which they called “valve reactor” or “VR.” This was the Valvetronix series available as heads, combos, console, and pedalboard. All these were long before the KORG/Noritake NuTube. To access all the models required a complicated control interface. But if you just wanted that valve reactor circuit to replicate an AC15 or AC30, and not a lot of cluttered controls, they offered the VR30. Great idea, ugly execution. Later they did the same idea but with much better AC__ styling; this was the AC30VR. Now with NuTube, they offer no equivalent product. Yet. But they do offer a FUNCTIONAL equivalent, two actually, the Cambridge and the Clubman. Neither has traditional styling. But you might check out the Super Beetle. (Edit: I see perttime has made the same suggestion, in a less-wordy post.)

I’m over lugging heavy combo amps to gigs. I play guitar and keys in a rock band, and bass (and some mandolin) in a country dance band. For the rock band I use a Super Beetle head, line out direct to the PA, and I leave the speaker cab home . I like the MV50’s size but the Super Beetle has reverb and better EQ so I put up with the silly box. I also own an MV50AC. I use it as the bass head in my other band.

My ideal would be a small modeling console like the original Valvetronix desktop, but with the VR circuit updated to NuTube. Or a Cambridge head. But neither is offered.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by perttime

Vox does have the Mini Superbeetle which is a compact NuTube amp that is supposed to behave much like AC-series amps...

Originally Posted by LFL Steve

Vox was on this path, but isn’t now. Their original modeling line used a miniature tube in a hybrid circuit, which they called “valve reactor” or “VR.” This was the Valvetronix series available as heads, combos, console, and pedalboard. All these were long before the KORG/Noritake NuTube. To access all the models required a complicated control interface, but if you just wanted that valve reactor circuit to replicate an AC15 or AC30 and not a lot of cluttered controls, they offered the VR30. Great idea, ugly execution. Later they did the same idea but with much better AC__ styling; this was the AC30VR. Now with NuTube, they offer no equivalent product. Yet. But they do offer a FUNCTIONAL equivalent, two actually, the Cambridge and the Clubman. Neither has traditional styling. But you might check out the Super Beetle. (Edit: I see perttime has made the same suggestion, in a less-wordy post.)

I’m over lugging heavy combo amps to gigs. I play guitar and keys in a rock band, and bass (and some mandolin) in a country dance band. For the rock band I use a Super Beetle head, line out direct to the PA, and I leave the speaker cab home . I like the MV50’s size but the Super Beetle has reverb and better EQ so I put up with the silly box. I also own an MV50AC. I use it as the bass head in my other band.

My ideal would be a small modeling console like the original Valvetronix desktop, but with the VR circuit updated to NuTube. Or a Cambridge head. But neither is offered.

I'm familiar with all the Vox offerings above (including the 150W NuTube head and corresponding 1x12" combo, which I'm surprised nobody mentioned - and FWIW I was strongly considering the unconventional-looking AV60, until I read about how difficult it is to perform routine tweaks like tube/speaker swaps) but I was thinking specifically in terms of what Fender did with the ToneMaster Series - a vintage-sounding amp with a few requisite upgrades for modern performing conditions, housed in a cabinet patterned after the iconic mid-60's blackface lineup (and their strong-selling reissues) - with the sonic mojo offered by the NuTube. I'm sure you're also aware that the ventilation in a vintage AC combo can leave a lot to be desired, with certain models/production periods notorious for frying power tubes on a regular basis (FYI Canada's thetubestore.com pitches their heavy-duty, Soviet-era mil-spec 7189 tubes at Vox owners with this problem), and a multi-stage NuTube front end and class-D power amp could take you from Beatles to Brian May and all points in between in a far-more-portable package than the original; leave the uber-tech modeling boxes to outfits like Line 6 and Roland, and concentrate on the still-active generation of road warriors who know (and need) "that" tone, in a package that won't have us financing our chiropractor's new Bentley - it seems to be working well for Fender and, for those of us who were in the musical trenches during the first wave of the British Invasion and still love those classic sounds, I see no reason it shouldn't work at least as well for Vox...

[printer2]

I looked up the NuTube years ago, I did not find anything desirable about them electrically. A full tube lineup is not heavy, the iron is. With all this weight hanging off the chassis, it has to be heavier also. I have made a Bassman styled amp with a 12" speaker and seem to remember it coming in at 26 lbs. Although I am going to go with a chassis a little thicker than the one shown it should not add up more than half a lb.



This one also has a Tweed Deluxe sized cabinet, a laptop power supply to feed it and a high voltage switcher to make the tubes happy. Using 6V6 tubes (actually 12V6, they were designed for car radios) an output transformer that weighs 2 lbs, I'll take the weight penalty. I also look out for light pieces of pine to make the cabinet out of. A half lb here, a half there, it all starts to add up. The amp will make 15-20W, the same as a Fender Deluxe. No need for more with these ears, trying to save what I have left. I did plug the amp into a 4X12 with 100 dB speakers, the poor living room never knew what hit it.

[67goat]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Not an issue if you're using 120V/240V AC - and a lithium-ion battery pack with the requisite voltage could be easily designed/fitted to a busker-type amp...

Or even 5 x 9 volt batteries in series to try the process cheaply. Then make a lithium battery if the results are good.

What guitarist doesn't have a bunch of 9 volts sitting around?

[EDIT] It seems B cells are readily available at Lowes and Amazon for about $30.

[bsman]

I play through (and enjoy) a 5/3 watt Champ sorta clone, a Vox MV50AC "nanotube" mini amp, Fender Super Champ X2, Positive Grid Spark and Spark GO modeling amps, a Boss Acoustic Singer Live, and a Blackstar Super Fly. They all have their place and do very well within it.