Mel Bay Modern Guitar Books

[ChrisN]

I've got a question about Mel's approach.

As I understand from other sources, the basic "triad" chords are formed in thirds. So, for the scale of C, you end up with 7 chords, C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, and Bdim.

It's my further understanding that, to these "basic" triads, one can add notes, including "7ths," and that one could, say, use a G7 in place of the G triad, for some added flavor.

So far, so good.

Enter Mel Bay's Part I, Grade I, p. 51, "Chords in the Key of C," where, without telling you anything about triads, 7ths, or anything about chord formation, he tells you that the scale of C has 3 "principal chords" - C, F, and G7. No mention of the minor/dim chords.

As mentioned, I draw info from lots of sources, and I've not seen another source talk in terms of "principal" (major?) chords when discussing the chords in a scale. Neither have my sources suggested throwing 7ths into the newbie chord mix, in place of the standard triads. All of my other sources use the minor/dim chords.

I scanned the rest of the book and Mel does the same thing for the rest of the scales.

My questions about Mel's method here -

* What are "principal" chords?
* Why does Mel use "principal" chords when others don't?
* Why doesn't use Mel just use triads, and all 7 of them, at that?
* Why doesn't Mel use the minor/dim chords?
* Why does Mel use a 7th (G7) in place of the triad (G)?

I'm sure there's an easy explanation for what I'm seeing, but a short internet search didn't reveal it, so I'm asking here. Thanks for any input, including, "well, it seems there stupid questions, after all!"

[elninobaby]

We probably can’t pin this one on Mel. From classic music theory, the I, IV, and V chords are called tonic, subdominant, and dominant. They’re the three major triads from the scale. The others are minor (3) and diminished. I think the reason the G is listed as a G7 has to do with the tritone (which is formed with the B when you add the seventh, F, to the G triad.) The tritone F-B has a lot of tension. The tension gets relieved when the B moves by half-step up to C and the F by half-step down to E. That G7-C is such a satisfying cadence, more so than just G to C. I don’t know if that explains things, but it’s at least my understanding.

[elninobaby]

And when someone mentions “three-chord rock” or “three chords and the truth,” the three chords are almost always I, IV, and V (and often V7 rather than just V). So those chords are “principal” in that regard, too.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

* What are "principal" chords?

I, IV and V:
https://www.musictheoryacademy.com/u...rimary-chords/

Originally Posted by ChrisN

* Why does Mel use "principal" chords when others don't?

Others do; it's not super common anymore.

Originally Posted by ChrisN

* Why doesn't use Mel just use triads, and all 7 of them, at that?
* Why does Mel use a 7th (G7) in place of the triad (G)?

The principal chords are 1, IV and V.
Don't know why they threw in the 7th, my guess is as a little hint of things to come.

Originally Posted by ChrisN

* Why doesn't Mel use the minor/dim chords?

See above, they are not principal chords.

[Graylocks]

It's my further understanding that, to these "basic" triads, one can add notes, including "7ths," and that one could, say, use a G7 in place of the G triad, for some added flavor.

Well, it depends. If you are in the key of C you could play a G or a G7. G in the key of C is the V chord, the dominant, and adding the 7th makes it even more dominant. G-B-D-F.

BUT, if you are in the key of G you couldn't simply make it a G7 as that would be a non-chord of the key. (for arguments sakes let's not assume key change or secondary dominant). The flavoring on that G chord, which is the I chord (tonic) in the key of G, would be GMaj7. G-B-D-F#. This would also be true in the key of D where G is the sub-dominant IV chord.

[Rad]

Mel Bay, my first music book, 50 or so years ago

All I have left is the cover

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by elninobaby

We probably can’t pin this one on Mel. From classic music theory, the I, IV, and V chords are called tonic, subdominant, and dominant. They’re the three major triads from the scale. The others are minor (3) and diminished. I think the reason the G is listed as a G7 has to do with the tritone (which is formed with the B when you add the seventh, F, to the G triad.) The tritone F-B has a lot of tension. The tension gets relieved when the B moves by half-step up to C and the F by half-step down to E. That G7-C is such a satisfying cadence, more so than just G to C. I don’t know if that explains things, but it’s at least my understanding.

I get that they're the major (principal) chords. I was wondering why the other newbie texts include the non-principal chords, and MB's newbie text doesn't. What's the "teaching" difference?, I think is what I'm after.

As for the G7, your intermediate-level explanation makes sense if Segovia's explaining why he went with a G7 over a G for a piece, but it doesn't tell me why MB didn't stay with a simple G, since this is Book 1, for newbs.

Originally Posted by elninobaby

And when someone mentions “three-chord rock” or “three chords and the truth,” the three chords are almost always I, IV, and V (and often V7 rather than just V). So those chords are “principal” in that regard, too.

I see why they're "principal," but still in the dark as to why this particular teacher of newbs is illustrating elementary concepts with only the principal chords, when the other newb texts don't do that.

[MikeHinFL]

Mel Bay, Mel Bay,
Where are you today?
We surely would've never
ever learned how to play

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIz7fw8FE7g

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

I, IV and V:
https://www.musictheoryacademy.com/u...rimary-chords/

Others do; it's not super common anymore.

The principal chords are 1, IV and V.
Don't know why they threw in the 7th, my guess is as a little hint of things to come.

See above, they are not principal chords.

The primary chords site was useful. Looks from that discussion like MB is taking smaller steps with newbies by presenting a limited number of chords, to keep things simpler. I've not seen any other teacher take that tack. I know I've enjoyed mixing up progressions with "principal" and minor chords (dim, not so much), and wouldn't have experience if I'd started with MB.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by Graylocks

It's my further understanding that, to these "basic" triads, one can add notes, including "7ths," and that one could, say, use a G7 in place of the G triad, for some added flavor.

Well, it depends. If you are in the key of C you could play a G or a G7. G in the key of C is the V chord, the dominant, and adding the 7th makes it even more dominant. G-B-D-F.

BUT, if you are in the key of G you couldn't simply make it a G7 as that would be a non-chord of the key. (for arguments sakes let's not assume key change or secondary dominant). The flavoring on that G chord, which is the I chord (tonic) in the key of G, would be GMaj7. G-B-D-F#. This would also be true in the key of D where G is the sub-dominant IV chord.

Huh. I did not know that you could not play the G chord in the G scale, or the G in the D scale, as a G7. My understanding was that you go back and forth using 7ths on any of the positions, or not, but you're saying that's not so. Clearly, I have more work to do!

[CopyCat]

I also learned via the Mel Bay books back in the 70s. I pulled them out again after being inspired by this thread.

They provide a good basic way to learn to read notes and, perhaps more important, to recognize common chord shapes as notated in standard music. It’s helpful to instantly recognize a C chord (or fragment) versus an A minor or G7 etc. And, as you advance, to recognize chords up the neck and in trickier keys.

I also like the early use of some chromaticism in these otherwise simple tunes- the minor sixth chords and secondary dominants were so exciting when I was a kid, and seemed to add so much color with just a well placed note or two.