Point & Shoot Preamp for K&K

[hiddenmickey]

I have a Martin DSR (rosewood / spruce) dread equipped with a K&K. I have downsized my rig to just this one and only guitar. What I don't like is that in order for it to sound good plugged in, I ended up having to spend more on outboard processing equipment than the guitar. I have a Tonedexter (trained with SM81) and an Empress ParaEQ in the effects loop. It works really well, but I'm ready to dump the pedalboard.

I would like a single device that is small and pretty much point and shoot. I had a Fire Eye Red Eye before the Tonedexter and it still very much needed the Empress ParaEQ to sound acceptable. I have also had a Baggs ParaDI, Avalon U5 and a Felix. I can't say that I would want to go back to any of them because of size (Avalon and Felix) or sound quality (Baggs ParaDI).

Anyway, I'm looking for something that is small and makes the K&K sound great without have to add an external EQ. I was looking at the Sunnaudio Stage DI. Do any of you have experience with the Stage DI / K&K combo?

[Rudy4]

Behringer ADI-21 if you want plug-n-play without spending a bunch of money.

[mondoslug]

ToneDexter without the Empress EQ didn't get it for you? It's not much larger than a DI, right?

[hiddenmickey]

Originally Posted by mondoslug

ToneDexter without the Empress EQ didn't get it for you? It's not much larger than a DI, right?

Tonedexter still needs help surgically cutting some frequencies. It's a lot bigger than a typical DI box.

[hiddenmickey]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Behringer ADI-21 if you want plug-n-play without spending a bunch of money.

I'm willing to pay up to $300 for a small form-factor, no extra EQ needed, awesome sounding preamp.

[mondoslug]

Originally Posted by hiddenmickey

Tonedexter still needs help surgically cutting some frequencies. It's a lot bigger than a typical DI box.

Fair enough on the frequencies, it does seem to be only be a couple of inches larger than a Countryman DI though.

[Brent Hahn]

Which K&K?

The passive piezos work best into either a passive DI or an active pre with an ultra-high impedance input -- way higher than your normal DI. Those aren't cheap.

And the magnetic & piezo/mic combo K&K's aren't recommended by Tonedexter. That part puzzles me a bit, actually -- why would the Tonedexter sound best with the worst-sounding pickup?

[hiddenmickey]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Which K&K?

The passive piezos work best into either a passive DI or an active pre with an ultra-high impedance input -- way higher than your normal DI. Those aren't cheap.

And the magnetic & piezo/mic combo K&K's aren't recommended by Tonedexter. That part puzzles me a bit, actually -- why would the Tonedexter sound best with the worst-sounding pickup?

It's the standard SBT PWM.

[Cellomangler]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

That part puzzles me a bit, actually -- why would the Tonedexter sound best with the worst-sounding pickup?

The Tonedexter works best with an extremely immediate source that has a lot of transients. I get better results with my Tonedexter using an LR Baggs Element or best of all, with my Takamine Palathetic. I've compared my under saddle wavemaps with my K&K and other SBT and the UST wins. I would suggest before ditching your Tonedexter that you try making a larger selection of wavemaps using different microphones and positions of microphones. I get huge variances in EQ which could easily be used to compensate for different amplification scenarios. Just my 3 cents.

[Gordon Currie]

You are going to take a noticeable step down by getting rid of the ToneDexter.

As good as the Sunn Audio stuff is, it is not going to give you the equivalent quality of the ToneDexter. If it did, many ToneDexter users would switch (especially users with only one guitar).

Part of the issue is the K+K. As revolutionary as it was at one time, these days it obviously needs more EQ help than other competing SBTs.

Frankly, I would recommend replacing the K+K with a Dazzo and use it with the Sunn Audio Stage DI. Your EQ needs would likely greatly diminish. But I understand you probably don't want to throw a bunch more money into this!

Another idea would be to get the Ultratonic conversion kit from James May Engineering which can improve the sound and performance of your existing installation.

[phcorrigan]

I've used the Behringer ADI-21 with my K&K equipped HD-28V and had pretty good results. I also had decent results using an ART TUBE MP Project Series preamp. Both were before I bought my ToneDexter.

The biggest issue I've found with the K&K is impedance mismatch exacerbating the piezo "quack." Both the above devices helped with that issue, and ADI-21 also gives you some EQ as well. Also, a lot of people like the K&K and Red Eye preamps.

[jonfields45]

Wait. I am using IRs on a HX Stomp which is far above your price point, but I suspect that IR loading will be coming to cheaper options in the near future. Then you can transfer your ToneDexter IRs to that yet to be made pedal and use its parametric EQ, reverb, graphic eq, tuner, etc.

[guitarman68]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

Frankly, I would recommend replacing the K+K with a Dazzo and use it with the Sunn Audio Stage DI. Your EQ needs would likely greatly diminish. But I understand you probably don't want to throw a bunch more money into this!

Another idea would be to get the Ultratonic conversion kit from James May Engineering which can improve the sound and performance of your existing installation.

Great recommendation from Gordon Currie. I still can not believe how good the Dazzo sounds in my rosewood OM. I use various SBTs but the Dazzo in this particular guitar beats them all.

If you want to keep the K&K and keep looking for a preamp, I can recommend the Fishman Platinum EQ. I bought it after playing with Pendulum SPS-1 (for years), Grace Felix, Red Eye, ToneDexter (by the way, i play up to five different stringed instruments on stage, so preamps are needed) and did not expect something special when buying it. I'm very surprised how good this box sounds and it is my number one when playing with my UltraTonic equipped rosewood dread.
But it is not much smaller than the ToneDexter.

[hiddenmickey]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

You are going to take a noticeable step down by getting rid of the ToneDexter.

As good as the Sunn Audio stuff is, it is not going to give you the equivalent quality of the ToneDexter. If it did, many ToneDexter users would switch (especially users with only one guitar).

Part of the issue is the K+K. As revolutionary as it was at one time, these days it obviously needs more EQ help than other competing SBTs.

Frankly, I would recommend replacing the K+K with a Dazzo and use it with the Sunn Audio Stage DI. Your EQ needs would likely greatly diminish. But I understand you probably don't want to throw a bunch more money into this!

Another idea would be to get the Ultratonic conversion kit from James May Engineering which can improve the sound and performance of your existing installation.

It sounds like as long as I keep the K&K in my guitar, I should stay with my current setup. The Sunnaudio preamp doesn't have enough magic in it to overcome the EQ needs of the K&K.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by hiddenmickey

It sounds like as long as I keep the K&K in my guitar, I should stay with my current setup. The Sunnaudio preamp doesn't have enough magic in it to overcome the EQ needs of the K&K.

I would suggest following Doug Young's approach to making wave maps.

I haven't tried the Ultratonic upgrade to the K&K, but I've heard good things about it.