John Pearce Casein

[BillyH]

Hello AGF team,

Randon question. How can John Pearce sell casein pics for $10 when others sell them for $40. Is there a difference in the quality of the casein?

Thanks,
Billy

[drtedtan]

Casein is pretty much casein. The variables come down to thickness, shape, edge treatment (beveled, rounded, etc.) and color.

Why are John Pearse picks less expensive? Who knows? Maybe JP has better economies of scale than the other, smaller, casein pick manufacturers, maybe the smaller companies out more time into beveling the edges and polishing the pick, maybe the smaller companies are making more profit per pick because they sell fewer picks (and no strings or other accessories).

My only issue with the JP Fast Turtle picks is the shape. I would prefer a more typical tear drop shape.

[stokes1971]

I bought one of those $35 caseins, dont remember the brand. Then I bought a J Pearse $10 pick. No difference I could feel. Went back and got a few more $10 numbers from Pearse.

[Zaam]

I think the JP picks might be the same material as the more expensive D'Addario casein picks. Regardless, I use one and will be buying more. They are great picks if you're looking for a quality casein plectrum at a reasonable cost, and I happen to like the shape a lot.

As for whether all casein is the same, I'm not positive that's the case. At least that's not the impression I get from some trusted sources like Charmed Life, who sells a special limited casein material in some of their offerings.

Maybe someone here can add color to this.

[Wellington]

Interesting, I didn't know John Pearse had casein picks, or any picks. I like their strings so I might give one a try. If they're like Primetime though, I don't really like those.

[jaymarsch]

I tried John Pearse casein picks and couldn’t find the shape and thickness that I prefer so I pop for the pricier ones by Charmed Life and Apollo. I have some Red Bears but they are thicker than I like.
Best,
Jayne

[BillyH]

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

I tried John Pearse casein picks and couldn’t find the shape and thickness that I prefer so I pop for the pricier ones by Charmed Life and Apollo. I have some Red Bears but they are thicker than I like.
Best,
Jayne

Hey Jayne,

I prefer Charmed Life as well. Their quality is second to none and you get to support a small business of great people. It's worth the difference to me, I was just curious.

Billy

[drtedtan]

Originally Posted by Zaam

I think the JP picks might be the same material as the more expensive D'Addario casein picks. Regardless, I use one and will be buying more. They are great picks if you're looking for a quality casein plectrum at a reasonable cost, and I happen to like the shape a lot.

As for whether all casein is the same, I'm not positive that's the case. At least that's not the impression I get from some trusted sources like Charmed Life, who sells a special limited casein material in some of their offerings.

Maybe someone here can add color to this.

Casein is a type of protein found in milk, and the plastic we call casein is made by evaporating milk and hardening the remaining casein with formaldehyde. I could be wrong, but I believe there are only a couple of manufacturers still making casein plastic sheets, so pick manufacturers would be sourcing the raw casein from the same sources. Perhaps Scott has found a new source or is making his own casein, but I haven’t heard anything to that effect.

[Ralph124C41]

What is the difference then between a casein pick and a Galalith pick? I understand Galaith is a material formed by " the interaction of casein and formaldehyde" (from our friends at WikiPedia.) I've seen picks sold as casein and I've seen picks sold as Galalith

Are there picks which are "pure" casein or are there casein picks being sold which should have been labeled Galaith picks?

I ask because as you know several woods have been marketed under different names. I've seen guitars advertised by sellers as having "rosewood" back and sides when, in truth, the guitars have Santos Rosewood, which is also I understand marketed as Pau Ferro, Bolivian Rosewood and Morado but it is not a "true" rosewood, such as Brazilian or East Indian.

I'm just asking because I'd like to know if I'm buying a casein pick or a Galalith picks or just what I'm getting.

[Zaam]

Originally Posted by drtedtan

Casein is a type of protein found in milk, and the plastic we call casein is made by evaporating milk and hardening the remaining casein with formaldehyde. I could be wrong, but I believe there are only a couple of manufacturers still making casein plastic sheets, so pick manufacturers would be sourcing the raw casein from the same sources. Perhaps Scott has found a new source or is making his own casein, but I haven’t heard anything to that effect.

Ya, IIRC Scott had some sheets of a particular casein that he ran out of a few years back and went on a quest to locate more. He did eventually find some abroad and bought up all he cold get his hands on. So I think your point is correct about casein being casein, but evidently there are variances that someone like Scott finds worthy of note. Maybe we can drag him into this discussion?

As a sidenote, I have one of these on order and am looking forward to giving it a go next to the caseins have here now.

[jaymarsch]

I know that both Scott, at Charmed Life and Nik, at Apollo have gotten their hands on what they may call “vintage” casein. So, the older stuff maybe has some beneficial properties. I also have heard Scott discuss the difference in manufacturing processes as to whether the pick was made from an extrusion process or cut and hand shaped. I hope either or both chime in here if they are not too swamped with orders!
Best,
Jayne

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

What is the difference then between a casein pick and a Galalith pick? I understand Galaith is a material formed by " the interaction of casein and formaldehyde" (from our friends at WikiPedia.) I've seen picks sold as casein and I've seen picks sold as Galalith

Are there picks which are "pure" casein or are there casein picks being sold which should have been labeled Galaith picks?

I ask because as you know several woods have been marketed under different names. I've seen guitars advertised by sellers as having "rosewood" back and sides when, in truth, the guitars have Santos Rosewood, which is also I understand marketed as Pau Ferro, Bolivian Rosewood and Morado but it is not a "true" rosewood, such as Brazilian or East Indian.

I'm just asking because I'd like to know if I'm buying a casein pick or a Galalith picks or just what I'm getting.

Caesin is precipitated milk proteins. When "cured" in the presence of formalin or formaldehyde, the polymerization occurs, rendering galalith. Pure casein would be like trying to strum with an Oreo cookie half. hard, but very brittle.

If you don't believe me, go get a gallon of whole milk, a jar of white vinegar, a sauté pan, and cheese cloth....I tried it for fun. It wasn't.

[Skip Ellis]

Anybody who sells anything tells the 'mark' (consumer) that his is the best and is special because it's old and has ground unicorn horn in it and we all know that when it comes to musical anything, the advertising buzzword is 'vintage' or 'old' and will guarantee sales. It's helpful if the seller also says that he has the last of all this particular material in the whole entire universe and he's the only one with the chemical and engineering smarts to deal with it. Remember, folks, the whole point of any business is to sell your product and make the absolute highest profit possible.

[HogsNRoses]

Originally Posted by drtedtan

My only issue with the JP Fast Turtle picks is the shape. I would prefer a more typical tear drop shape.

For a teardrop, try a Hense. Strings By Mail in the United States and Thomann in Germany sell them.

Scott chimed in on this subject before and said the inexpensive casein picks are all made by the same supplier in Germany. Of the inexpensive picks, I think Fender and Clayton are different than the tortoise looking ones.

Inexpensive casein (or galaith) picks: John Pearse, Clayton, Fender, Hense, and D’Addario is borderline inexpensive.

I have lots of inexpensive casein picks and have spent lots of time adding the finish and bevel that a premium one comes with. In other words, I think the primary difference is the amount of labor in a CLP, Red Bear, or Apollo. The improved bevel and finish can make a difference. I also like a very thin casein pick. With Fender or Clayton, I remove their surface finish down to bare casein.

I have a question about CLP: is their teardrop a small teardrop or standard?

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by HogsNRoses

For a teardrop, try a Hense. Strings By Mail in the United States and Thomann in Germany sell them.

Scott chimed in on this subject before and said the inexpensive casein picks are all made by the same supplier in Germany. Of the inexpensive picks, I think Fender and Clayton are different than the tortoise looking ones.

Inexpensive casein (or galaith) picks: John Pearse, Clayton, Fender, Hense, and D’Addario is borderline inexpensive.

I have lots of inexpensive casein picks and have spent lots of time adding the finish and bevel that a premium one comes with. In other words, I think the primary difference is the amount of labor in a CLP, Red Bear, or Apollo. The improved bevel and finish can make a difference. I also like a very thin casein pick. With Fender or Clayton, I remove their surface finish down to bare casein.

I have a question about CLP: is their teardrop a small teardrop or standard?

Hi, Everyone, I usually stay out of these discussions, for the reason stated below.

People think I come in to pitch CLP. They see my name as a poster and don't even open the thread, and the tread dies. Folks, I am a teacher by trade. I am here to inform, not pitch. Please don't let this wonderful thread die.

IF, BECAUSE OF THIS POST, THIS THREAD DIES AND SLIPS TO THE SECOND PAGE, I WILL HAVE A MOD DELETE IT.

I want to address just one question that's already come up in this thread a number of times, then I'm going to lay out again.

To clarify, ALL tortoise casein picks marketed as major brands in the U.S. are made by the same company overseas. That includes Hense, D'Addario, Jon Pearse, etc., etc. Also, with rare exceptions, every casein tortoise pick in the marketplace -- including all those made by the boutique boys -- is made from the same tortoise casein material. Why is that? you make ask. It's a good question, with a very simple answer, and it's a bit troubling. There is one only company on the planet still in production making casein plastic sheets. One. Everyone else has gone out of business. And I'd be shocked if they're still making it ten years from now. In fact even five years would surprise me.

But there's silver lining in that cloud, folks. There is enough "vintage" casein in the marketplace, if you know where to look, to last, in my humble estimation, one hundred years.

Finally, to answer one more question, the casein picks with the rainbow colors marketed by Fender and Clayton et al are also made by the same companies, both the material and the finished goods.

Please, this is not a CLP thread. Any CLP-specific questions, please take it off the board and PM me, but I don't know when I can reply. I'm so far behind that I feel like I'm in a Formula One race, about to lap myself.

Best to You All,
Scott