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Old 06-19-2019, 01:07 AM
SpiderTrap SpiderTrap is offline
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Default Developing Soul in playing

Where does in come from ? I think it comes from somewhere very deep inside the brain after playing many years. I Could be completely wrong . I Guess it could be Faked ?? I dunno , but I do know I have developed it in playing and am now moving more to electric . How do you get that groove to pull people in
almost to an hypnotic state ? ? I've heard numerous Great guitar players on You Tube , but to me - Some lack the inner gut feeling in playing that sets others apart . especially true in lead playing . Anyone with other ideas on this subject would be appreciated . Im no great player by a long shot, but once I begin , my fingers seems to go places I dont plan , string slides and bends just seem to sound really good . I have no music theory. It comes from somewhere , but Where ?

Last edited by SpiderTrap; 06-19-2019 at 01:21 AM. Reason: bad spell as usual
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:19 AM
Russ C Russ C is offline
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Great question.
On all too rare occasions I know I'm firing and the soul comes from somewhere I don't know but it's easy.
The rest of the time, which I fear is the biggest part of the answer, it comes from how well one can fake it - ie. how good your technique is and how big your "library" is.
I envy anyone who can claim the first bit is normal.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:28 AM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Originally Posted by SpiderTrap View Post
Where does in come from ? I think it comes from somewhere very deep inside the brain after playing many years. I Could be completely wrong . I Guess it could be Faked ?? I dunno , but I do know I have developed it in playing and am now moving more to electric . How do you get that groove to pull people in
almost to an hypnotic state ? ? I've heard numerous Great guitar players on You Tube , but to me - Some lack the inner gut feeling in playing that sets others apart . especially true in lead playing . Anyone with other ideas on this subject would be appreciated . Im no great player by a long shot, but once I begin , my fingers seems to go places I dont plan , string slides and bends just seem to sound really good . I have no music theory. It comes from somewhere , but Where ?
I don't think it can be learned or faked. In fact, it's pretty painfully obvious when faked, IMO. Some cats have it, some don't.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:50 AM
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I think you just have to love what you're doing and have the technical ability to let that show through.
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:08 AM
Russ C Russ C is offline
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I don't think it can be learned or faked. In fact, it's pretty painfully obvious when faked, IMO. Some cats have it, some don't.
I know what you're saying and of course I must agree - soul can't be faked .. if it is, it isn't soul but I would still suggest that a great player going through the motions can give a better impression of that magic ingredient, even though it ain't real, than a weak player who's truly feeling it.
And very true and sadly true that some just don't get a fair dose in their nature or nuture.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:24 AM
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Mbroady Mbroady is offline
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Interesting question, for which I can only take an educated guess based on my own experience.

Soul comes when you move from the left brain, where you are analyzing (practicing) to the right brain where you are tapping into the creative process.
Easier said then done, especially if one is left brain dominant.
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:15 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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I don't think it can be learned or faked. In fact, it's pretty painfully obvious when faked, IMO. Some cats have it, some don't.
I agree. I've watched the youtubes where guys are shredding or copying well-known leads, and almost inevitably there is no soul in their playing.
But its not confined to lead guitar, either. I've watched some people play rhythm (strumming) and there is no feeling there.
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Russ C View Post
I know what you're saying and of course I must agree - soul can't be faked .. if it is, it isn't soul but I would still suggest that a great player going through the motions can give a better impression of that magic ingredient, even though it ain't real, than a weak player who's truly feeling it.
And very true and sadly true that some just don't get a fair dose in their nature or nuture.
I've seen technically incredible players that just can't connect, so I'd have to stick with my original post. All style and no substance. They can dazzle me, but I don't feel what they're doing on any soulful level.

I can see what you mean about the great player vs a weak player thing. It's a better performance, but it still isn't soul.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:27 AM
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I think it takes a certain level of technical skill to be able to execute soulfully. But as others have said, having the technical skill doesn't always get you there. We've all heard guys who can shred or play complicated jazz chords who still don't move us.

I could have a PhD in literature and not be a great writer. But studying and learning does give one great references to know what other great writers have done to achieve their end result. So studying soulful players and what they do gets you going in the right direction.

I think different things move people differently, but for most of us, dynamics, phrasing and note choices are key elements that tend to evoke emotions. And to execute on those things does take practice, skill and knowledge.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:14 AM
jaymarsch jaymarsch is offline
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Originally Posted by Stratcat77 View Post
I think it takes a certain level of technical skill to be able to execute soulfully. But as others have said, having the technical skill doesn't always get you there. We've all heard guys who can shred or play complicated jazz chords who still don't move us.

I could have a PhD in literature and not be a great writer. But studying and learning does give one great references to know what other great writers have done to achieve their end result. So studying soulful players and what they do gets you going in the right direction.

I think different things move people differently, but for most of us, dynamics, phrasing and note choices are key elements that tend to evoke emotions. And to execute on those things does take practice, skill and knowledge.
Well said, Stratcat. An interesting topic for discussion though I am not sure that I have much to add. So many factors involved for both the player and the listener. Feeling that soulful connection through music I think does depend on how differently people feel things. For some it might be a lyrical phrase that touches them, for someone else it might be the groove that moves them, and for another, the melody grabs them on that deeper level. I think that both passion and vulnerability are at play for both listener and player with maybe a dash of mystery operating as well.

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Old 06-19-2019, 08:18 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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Most of it is having good time feel. And that means "actually good" not just playing on beat and in time, but knowing how to stretch that, knowing how to lay back just right.

Really.

It can be taught, but the people who are best at it learned it from listening and copying to the point of where it became natural.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:57 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is online now
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Warning, pedantic person posting...

I think we may be conflating (or in danger of conflating...) performance charisma and then entertainment skills with another quality, the factor that makes some people's playing and singing (even from the same score or general arrangement of notes) more meaningful.

While charisma is somewhat subjective, there are performers who are generally seen to have "it" and it doesn't seem to require practice as such as it's often present very early in a performer's career. One example that comes to mind was the young Bob Dylan, who impressed people, even those that didn't really think much of him otherwise than that. Charisma is a weird quality where people sense there is something there even before it's established that the person has something as an artist. You could say it's derived from some increased degree of self-confidence, but vulnerability can be part of it too. James Dean (not a musician, but...) had charisma. Janis Joplin had a mix of bravado and vulnerability in her charisma.

A great many popular and successful musical performers have little or no charisma, other than that fame thing that accumulates from a track record of producing impressive work. Eric Clapton is one example that comes to mind. Woodshedding and hard work in general contribute a lot to many careers.

Entertainment skills, the ability to attract and hold an audience are learnable, both from the school of hard knocks but from shorter more focused efforts. I think of the Motown "Finishing School" that molded a lot of Detroit acts into an entertainment powerhouse. The skills here are very similar to salesmanship.

Soul as a word is less exact, but I think what we mean by it here is communicating emotional impact, something that in my mind is at the core of art (not just music). That communication has a great many factors, some external to the individual performance from history and culture and the audience's receptibility. But the musical performer's component can probably be learned (actors learn this, most aren't naturally good at it from the get go). Soul can be distinguished from mere entertainment skills that don't always relay on a feeling of deep emotional connection.

The contrarian in Frank Zappa liked to argue that this emotional communication was just a technique, a trick. Some actors will maintain the same thing, like musicians they like to point out they had to work at it. From Aristotle on, there's been a great deal written explicating this "trick." But, of course, that doesn't mean that something isn't communicated with this "trick," and that we don't or shouldn't value it.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:14 PM
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I don't think "Soul" can be taught or learned, not in the traditional manner, anyway...

It seems to me that having Soul come through your playing and singing is more a function of really KNOWING YOURSELF and being willing to expose that through your playing and singing.

It's something that everyone "could do", but very few actually do. Certainly, knowing a bunch of positions and scales and rifs could come in handy, but, as has been noted, there a bunch of extremely technically proficient players who don't ever really "get there".

A player or singer who's technically brilliant dowesn't do much, if anything at all for me. I appreciate the effort and time it took them to become as adept as they are, but that old "put 100 monkeys in a room with a typewriter" saying comes into play quickly.

If it ain't REAL, I ain't interested... and I know a lot of folks who applaud the technical aspect of playing and singing and don't seem to notice "what's missing", or perhaps, for them, it's not missing at all...
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:55 PM
Stratcat77 Stratcat77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
....the people who are best at it learned it from listening and copying to the point of where it became natural.

I think this aligns with how I see it. I don’t care how “soulful” one is as a personality, without the right skills and knowledge they can’t express those emotions in a musical way. I’m not suggesting one must be technically brilliant to play soulfully. I think I have my moments when I play soulfully and I’m certainly not technically brilliant.
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderTrap View Post
Where does in come from ? I think it comes from somewhere very deep inside the brain after playing many years. I Could be completely wrong . I Guess it could be Faked ?? I dunno , but I do know I have developed it in playing and am now moving more to electric . How do you get that groove to pull people in
almost to an hypnotic state ? ? It comes from somewhere , but Where ?
How about posting a link to a video of a player that gives you that feeling?

It would take all the conjecture, etc out of this because nobody really knows what is meant by 'soul' when it comes to someone else.

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Howard Emerson
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