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  #31  
Old 01-17-2022, 05:31 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Thanks for posting this. I think is sounds like a K&K, which is a good thing. I agree with Cuki that your epoxy Trance sounds better. Perhaps the feedback rejection with the UT would be better, however?
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  #32  
Old 01-17-2022, 05:54 PM
SongwriterFan SongwriterFan is offline
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Well, you did ask for an honest assessment:

Where are you capo'd? It'd be a lot easier to judge with some open cowboy type chords.

It feels to me like there's NO bass in the guitar.

And it sounds to me like a piezo pickup (lots of "quack") . . but maybe I never really understood what people mean by that term. But hearing it, it reminds me of a UST, rather than the UltraTonic.
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  #33  
Old 01-17-2022, 07:39 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Now I am really considering using epoxy for my Amulet. I have the Amulet and Dazzo sitting here. I have yet to try the Dazzo, but I have tried the Amulet and always struggled with a thin/bright tone that also had quite a bit of piezo tone to it when strummed. I have some live recordings direct to my Touchmix mixer with each instrument separated. When I listen to the Amulet, it sometimes honestly sounds like a UST.
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  #34  
Old 01-18-2022, 02:43 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SongwriterFan View Post
Well, you did ask for an honest assessment:

Where are you capo'd? It'd be a lot easier to judge with some open cowboy type chords.

It feels to me like there's NO bass in the guitar.

And it sounds to me like a piezo pickup (lots of "quack") . . but maybe I never really understood what people mean by that term. But hearing it, it reminds me of a UST, rather than the UltraTonic.
Thanks for your comment. I'm playing without a capo. I'm making adjustments to the Ultra Tonic that will likely help its tone.
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  #35  
Old 01-18-2022, 05:44 AM
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Mbroady Mbroady is offline
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Thanks for posting the samples. Based on the (Direct) recordings I liked the HFN over the ultratonic. The Ultratonic seem like an improvement over the K&k, but it still had the mini’s honky-ness, much like a K&k without the muddy low end

The HFN, though a bit thinner sounding, sounded more mic like without the mid boost. Still had the quack but also had a bit of “air”

If the recordings where “In the room” using mics then perhaps it would be a different outcome. I have the HFN in one guitar (soon to be 2) and it takes well to EQ, especially when adding low end.
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  #36  
Old 01-18-2022, 09:49 AM
SongwriterFan SongwriterFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
Thanks for your comment. I'm playing without a capo. I'm making adjustments to the Ultra Tonic that will likely help its tone.
That was without a capo, and it's a D-18? Something doesn't sound right, to me.

Have you sent the audio file to James May (inventor of the Ultratonic pickup) and asked for his opinion?

I'm wondering if the dip switches got set correctly. There should only be ONE dip switch that's in the "different" position from all the others. I've seen a case where an installer didn't read the instructions correctly, and ended up with quite a few dip switches in the "different" position, instead of just one.

I would definitely talk to James May about it . . . he's going to be a lot more useful than people like me.
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  #37  
Old 01-18-2022, 01:52 PM
tadol tadol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SongwriterFan View Post
That was without a capo, and it's a D-18? Something doesn't sound right, to me.

Have you sent the audio file to James May (inventor of the Ultratonic pickup) and asked for his opinion?

I'm wondering if the dip switches got set correctly. There should only be ONE dip switch that's in the "different" position from all the others. I've seen a case where an installer didn't read the instructions correctly, and ended up with quite a few dip switches in the "different" position, instead of just one.

I would definitely talk to James May about it . . . he's going to be a lot more useful than people like me.
Second on that! I have 2 UT guitars, one set-up by James, and one by me, and they sound very different in general from what I hear recorded. I was wondering if it has to do with the other equipment you have in the chain, and how you have it adjusted?

My set-ups were done primarily to eliminate boominess and feedback - if two switch settings gave me essentially the same feedback resistance, then I would take the one that had the best (IMO) tone. With a clean signal, itís basically done - Iíll probably never even think about those switches again. Taking that straight thru to a clean amp, I get a really good sound that can be run up to high volume without any feedback - although I have found that vocal mic placement and monitors can still cause some issues. Any modification in EQ isnít a desired function of the pickup - I like what my guitar sounds like, and knowing what it sounds like in an amp, before I plug it into anything else. Depending whether I plug into an acoustic amp, or an ďelectricĒ amp, or straight into the PA, then I can make whatever EQ adjustments I think might be needed.

I donít think any pickup will give you the kind of tone a good mic would give you. But they can eliminate the many issues trying to play live in a band with just a mic can have - especially if you donít have someone really good running your sound. If you want all the advantages of simple plug-and-play, and still get amazingly close to a great micíd sound, then you need to add the Tonedexter - to me, its really just that simple.
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  #38  
Old 01-19-2022, 05:04 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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I think I know what may be the cause of the tone problem with the UT installation and it's an easy fix if it's what I think it is. Hopefully, it has nothing to do with the UT itself. More to come ...
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  #39  
Old 01-19-2022, 06:30 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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SpruceTop, are you using the dip switches for overall tonal shaping?

That could result in some wonky tone results.
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  #40  
Old 01-20-2022, 08:26 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Currie View Post
SpruceTop, are you using the dip switches for overall tonal shaping?

That could result in some wonky tone results.
Hi Gordon, yes, I've been adjusting the DIP switches but they aren't the problem. I'm about to discover if my quick-fix handiwork will result in a successful Ultra Tonic tone outcome. More to come ...
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  #41  
Old 01-20-2022, 01:54 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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I made an adjustment to the saddle as I believe it was a bit too long and may not have enabled the saddle to sit all the way down on the saddle-slot floor, especially on each end. The Martin D-18 came from the factory this way with the saddle snug on both ends and not enabling any back-and-forth of the saddle along the length of the slot. This indicated to me that the ends of the saddle may not have been sitting on the slot floor. The tonal problem with the Ultra Tonic installation could be that the Ultra Tonic's 6th and 1st strings weren't getting their full dose of direct vibration through the saddle, bridge, and bridgeplate. Although I noticed this saddle snugness earlier, and with the Ultra Tonic being an SBT, I didn't do anything about it as I figured it wouldn't affect the ability of the Ultra Tonic to pick up the overall vibration of the guitar. Think about it though, the Ultra Tonic's main sensor sits right under the line of the saddle and thus is getting stimulated by direct vibrations through the saddle/bridge/bridgeplate sandwich. I removed about .015" inch from each end of the saddle while maintaining the rounded ends, and I put a short upslope on the bottom of each saddle end. It's now my firm belief that correct saddle fit is very important for obtaining the best performance from any pickup system be it an SBT or UST.

I'll post some sound files of what I hear as being an improvement in the Martin D-18/Ulta Tonic's tone. More to come ...
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  #42  
Old 01-20-2022, 03:34 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
I made an adjustment to the saddle as I believe it was a bit too long and may not have enabled the saddle to sit all the way down on the saddle-slot floor, especially on each end. The Martin D-18 came from the factory this way with the saddle snug on both ends and not enabling any back-and-forth of the saddle along the length of the slot. This indicated to me that the ends of the saddle may not have been sitting on the slot floor. The tonal problem with the Ultra Tonic installation could be that the Ultra Tonic's 6th and 1st strings weren't getting their full dose of direct vibration through the saddle, bridge, and bridgeplate. Although I noticed this saddle snugness earlier, and with the Ultra Tonic being an SBT, I didn't do anything about it as I figured it wouldn't affect the ability of the Ultra Tonic to pick up the overall vibration of the guitar. Think about it though, the Ultra Tonic's main sensor sits right under the line of the saddle and thus is getting stimulated by direct vibrations through the saddle/bridge/bridgeplate sandwich. I removed about .015" inch from each end of the saddle while maintaining the rounded ends, and I put a short upslope on the bottom of each saddle end. It's now my firm belief that correct saddle fit is very important for obtaining the best performance from any pickup system be it an SBT or UST.

I'll post some sound files of what I hear as being an improvement in the Martin D-18/Ulta Tonic's tone. More to come ...
If your suspicion is correct, the saddle fit might also have had some bearing on the HFN's tonal balance.
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  #43  
Old 01-20-2022, 04:40 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
If your suspicion is correct, the saddle fit might also have had some bearing on the HFN's tonal balance.
Gary, you're very astute and wise! That, too, was my thinking and the Schatten HFN pickup may have more to offer than meets the ear, at least in my installation tries.
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  #44  
Old 01-21-2022, 04:55 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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I made another adjustment to the multi-DIP switch array and will post more sound files tomorrow.
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  #45  
Old 01-22-2022, 04:07 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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More Demos with the DIP switch at 8 out of its 12 positions. My next alternative DIP switch adjustment would be to 5 where the body-resonance starts entering the tone. This should give more girth to the bass register but maybe at the expense of overall tonal clarity? We'll see, but for now here are a couple of demos at DIP-switch 8:

All demos are made with the Martin D-18/Ultra Tonic 3.2 into a 1 MegaOhm setting on the FELiX 2 with all EQ FLAT and NO EFFECTS, and then into a PreSonus Studio 192 interface and into Audacity.

The following demos are being played aggressively with a Guitar Moose .8 mm flatpick and are the guitar-backing to what my vocals would be for these songs. As Always, Your Comments Are Welcome & Y'Ain't Gonna Hurt My Feelings!

George Strait's "If You're Thinking You Want A Stranger (There's One Coming Home)"



Bo Diddley's "Who Do You Love?" via john Hammond

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Last edited by SpruceTop; 01-22-2022 at 05:04 PM.
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