K&K experience. Not sure I like it.

[Herb Hunter]

The primary reason that some people have not been satisfied with the K&K Pure Western Mini pickup until they tried a K&K preamp is because of the 1 mega ohm input impedance of K&K preamps which best suits their pickups. The SoloAmp has a 10 mega ohm input impedance which would accentuate the bass response of a K&K pickup though perhaps not as much as the difference between 1 mega ohm and 10 mega ohms might suggest.

One can use an equalizer to attenuate the bass to an acceptable level but ultimate success depends on having controls that are most effective in the region that has been boosted by the impedance mismatch while not affecting frequencies that don't need attenuation. For example if it happens that one needs to reduce output between, say, 150 and 250 Hz, most bass controls don't have much effect on frequencies that high and most mid range controls don't have much effect in that region either. It seems so much easier to solve the problem by plugging the guitar into a preamp with a 1 mega ohm input impedance.

As regards cables, despite the assertions of some, no one has ever demonstrated that a very expensive cable is any better than a medium priced, low capacitance cable.

[guitaniac]

Deleted bad spec info. Thanks for the correction, Herb.

FWIW, I get good results using a Fishman Pro EQ Platinum preamp with my mini-Pure equipped guitar. The Platinum's input impedance is 10Mohms. Its a rather trebly sounding guitar, acoustically, so a bit of extra bass end (from the high input impedance) is actually helpful. Albeit, I do sometimes roll off a bit of bass with the Platinum's bass EQ slider. With my guitar, a small mid cut around 1.5Khz is helpful, and I'll usually leave the treble control set flat.

I've also used the mini-Pure with a Boss GE-7 graphic EQ box (1Mohm input resistance, 15db available gain) on several occasions. The Platinum preamp works best, however, for my situation and personal taste.

Gary

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

The SoloAmp channel's input impedance is 20Kohms, according to the specs.
http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=106

I took the precaution of checking that document before I posted. It does not specify the input impedance of the instrument input jack only the input impedance of the effects loop so I called Fishman and was told that the 1/4-inch, input jack on the SoloAmp and the Loudboxes has an input impedance of 10 mega ohms.

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

The primary reason that some people have not been satisfied with the K&K Pure Western Mini pickup until they tried a K&K preamp is because of the 1 mega ohm input impedance of K&K preamps which best suits their pickups. The SoloAmp has a 10 mega ohm input impedance which would accentuate the bass response of a K&K pickup

Originally Posted by guitaniac

FWIW, I get good results using a Fishman Pro EQ Platinum preamp with my mini-Pure equipped guitar. The Platinum's input impedance is 10Mohms.
Gary

So, if you are keeping score on this thread, respones have tended to fall into one of 3 camps.
1. K&K sucks, get rid of it.
2. I need a pre-amp to match impedance.
3. I need an EQ source that is not simply a repeat of what I already have on my SoloAmp.

Since the K&K in already installed, lets skip #1 for now in the hope that I will eventually get this thing to work well.

Intrigued by Gary's post, I checked out the Fishman Pro EQ. I am now wondering if I could actually combine #2 and #3 with the Fishman Pro EQ Platinum. http://accessories.musiciansfriend.c...AID=26021982It has as much EQ as the MXR and looks as if it would do the job on matching impedence plus a couple of other cool sounding features all for $10 less than the XLR pre-amp, OR, does it have to be the K&K pre-amp to do the job?

What do you guys think?
LC

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

I took the precaution of checking that document before I posted. It does not specify the input impedance of the instrument input jack only the input impedance of the effects loop so I called Fishman and was told that the 1/4-inch, input jack on the SoloAmp and the Loudboxes has an input impedance of 10 mega ohms.

I believe that you're right, Herb. My bad. I went down and set up my SoloAmp to once again test it with my K&K-equipped guitar. I got a nice full tone going directly to the SoloAmp (so much for my recollection). In fact, the tone was noticeably bassier going directly to the SoloAmp than going thru my Platinum preamp (tone controls set flat) with the same 10Mohm input impedance. Go figure.

BTW, I also tried my Boss GE-7 pedal with the same result as with the Platinum. It sounded brighter and more balanced than going directly to the SoloAmp. I don't know what's going on with the SoloAmp, but it definitely does sound bassier going direct. If your guitar is bassy to begin with, I can see how the direct-to-SoloAmp sound might displease you. If you are using an overly long cable with high capacitance, that will further attenuate your high end.


In any event, El, I would at least give the EQ box idea a try before opting for a more expensive solution (Platinum or K&K preamp). The Boss and MXR EQ boxes are so common that you may be able to follow sdelsolray's advice and borrow one just to see how it works for you. If you happen to need a signal phase inversion (to eliminate boominess or feedback), you can do that right at the SoloAmp channel. You won't need a preamp with a phase reversal feature as long as you're running to the SoloAmp.

Hope that helps.
Gary

[guitaniac]

Regarding the Platinum vs K&K Preamp choice, the K&K will definitely be simpler to use (you needn't learn how to use the two sweepable mid controls) and probably better suited to K&K pickups. The Platinum is a much better choice for all around use, provided you learn how to use its various features.

If it turns out that nothing will make the mini-Pure palatable for you, the Platinum is a much better choice for various UST and mag pickup systems.

First things first, though. I'd trying borrowing a Boss or MXR EQ box just to see how it works for you. The used ones are so cheap on ebay that you'd lose little more than the shipping cost to try one and resell it if it doesn't provide the desired result.

Gary

[alohachris]

Aloha El,

Well now you've cretainly got all the experienced folks here to lay some groundwork for you regarding optimizing a K&K mini - or NOT. It's time for you to do some spec reading and some planning and then act.

Yeah, Fishman's Pro Platinum pre would be a good place to start for impedance (not a direct match, though - may need a resistor on your bassy dread) and good EQ which it offers. Try it.

But I think you should go back and read sdelsolray's post to you. What you really need is more knowledge, planning, first hand experience, and understanding how the elements of a LIVE rig work together in different venues rather than just throwing products at it.

Planning your entire rig IS the key - before you buy.

But adding an MXR EQ, K&K or Fishman Pro pre will definitely help out your K&K mini. It functions best with a matching preamp.

The advantages of dual sources? You'll learn.

alohachris

[HudsDad]

El,

If you're interested in trying out a K&K preamp, just shoot me a PM. I have a K&K Pure that I won't be using for a while. It will at least give you a chance to see if it helps cure your problems. Just play with it for a couple of weeks and send it back when you're done.

[tdrake]

Originally Posted by HudsDad

El,

If you're interested in trying out a K&K preamp, just shoot me a PM. I have a K&K Pure that I won't be using for a while. It will at least give you a chance to see if it helps cure your problems. Just play with it for a couple of weeks and send it back when you're done.

For all the awfulness of the internots, a post like this reminds us there are still lots of good people out there in the real world.

Ironically, my one decent 10' cable that I bought exclusively for my acoustic crapped out on me last week, so I switched to various cheapies -- and the difference is extremely negligible, to my ears...resoldered the cable a couple hours ago and was just practicing and, yep, the difference is small. Does it sound better? Sure, a bit...if I purposely stand there in my quiet basement and wonder whether it was worth $40 or whatever. Would an audience hear a difference? Not in the least. So I really doubt that's the problem.

Like Gary, I've also been surprised how decent the unpreamped PWM sounds into the SoloAmp (as compared to how bleah it sounds into other things), so I'm perplexed why the OP's sounds so bad. I really hope you have a chance to try some options without throwing money at your setup, because it should sound mighty dang fine without major effort, in my experience.

td

[66strummer]

Originally Posted by HudsDad

El,

If you're interested in trying out a K&K preamp, just shoot me a PM. I have a K&K Pure that I won't be using for a while. It will at least give you a chance to see if it helps cure your problems. Just play with it for a couple of weeks and send it back when you're done.

Now that's what I'm talking about . That's as nice an option as any..... and a very kind offer.

[kramster]

I have the Pure XLR and it does help..I also happen to have the Progression Twin Tube which is cool and helps even more (the Progression has the Pure as the slid state part and can be used without the tubes)... but alas tis an extra thing to carry around and seem a bit less road worthy a much bigger.

[Jarvis]

I have quite a number of friends that got the K&K installed..initially they liked it..

if you are playing alone..its ok..but when you play in a live band situation that is loud with the drums and pumping bass response with electric guitars playing...you are lost in the whole mix..the amplified just won't cut thru no matter how you try to eq it.. then when you try to increase the volume of it..you get feedback problems.

The K&K works better in smaller guitars..if you put it in a Dread or jumbo...there is a lot of bass and mids.. My friends tell me that the trebles are not as clear as a good UST pickup.

They might as well make it with a active pre-amp..

Because its a passive pickup ..but many end up buying a K&K external pre-amp..so in the end you end up spending more money...

[66strummer]

I've often noticed acoustics tend to get lost in the mix in band situations with drums and other stringed instruments but I tend to agree that the most feedback resistant pickups should be the ones used in bands. If you go with a SBT system it should also have a UST and blending capability (IMO of course). This new Anthem system Baggs came out with sounds interesting (sorry, a bit off topic).

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by min7b5

El Conquistador, if you do try the MXR thing, shoot me an email. I'm happy to go over settings and stuff over phone.

Originally Posted by HudsDad

El,
If you're interested in trying out a K&K preamp, just shoot me a PM. I have a K&K Pure that I won't be using for a while. It will at least give you a chance to see if it helps cure your problems. Just play with it for a couple of weeks and send it back when you're done.

Originally Posted by tdrake

For all the awfulness of the internots, a post like this reminds us there are still lots of good people out there in the real world.
td

HudsDad,
What a great offer! Thank you! I will shoot you a PM about the details.

And yes, this has been an absolutly exemplary thread. It shows what a forum like this can be. JR ought to sticky this thread as an example of posting manners. Thanks again to everyone who took the time to respond.
LC

[Pete on guitar]

I had the same experience as the OP. The K&K Mini Western - fitted by a luthier, but without the K&K preamp, just didn't have enough presence for me in live performances of any type, although I could get a lovely sound in the ol' home studio. My solution was to add a compact Artec single coil magnetic pickup. Artec stuff is dirt cheap but surprisingly good - I had an LR Baggs MI passive before that, and the Artec sounds as good to my ears, and picks up quite a bit of woody tone. It's not the ultimate in realistic acoustic sounds, but it's a really rewarding sound to use live; plenty of presence and dynamic range, with no piezo quack.

I fitted a pan-pot to mix between the two, and the intermediate tones are really interesting. The pan-pot is mounted on a tiny plastic panel stuck to the side of the Artec, so you can access it via the soundhole. My only problem was sticking the plastic panel to the Artec. No glue so far seems to be man enough for the job, even Araldite. Keeps coming off! Dammit!

Pete