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Old 12-27-2018, 09:02 PM
sloar sloar is offline
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Default Please explain “bad habits”

I’ve discussed whether to take lessons or not on this forum and people always talk about correcting bad habits someone might have when learning by book or the internet. What are some bad habits that I should look for? Thanks.
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:13 PM
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There is just too much on the internet already. Try googling with such sentences as: avoid bad habits playing (or learning) guitar, or try: tips on learning to play guitar, etc.

Then if still lost get a "good" guitar teacher who plays the type of music you are interested in.
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Old 12-27-2018, 11:58 PM
stanron stanron is offline
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Grumpy early morning reply warning!

I've seen people holding guitar in the wierdest ways making great music. Forget about good or bad habits. Music is patterns in sound. Concentrate on the sounds you want to make. If you are smart you'll figure out the most efficient ways to make those sounds. If you can't imagine the sounds, what's the point in eradicating bad habits?
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Old 12-28-2018, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanron View Post
Grumpy early morning reply warning!

I've seen people holding guitar in the wierdest ways making great music. Forget about good or bad habits. Music is patterns in sound. Concentrate on the sounds you want to make. If you are smart you'll figure out the most efficient ways to make those sounds. If you can't imagine the sounds, what's the point in eradicating bad habits?
I will respectfully disagree. I've been teaching guitar for over 40 years and have come across many players who display the bad habits you're speaking of. Not one of them was playing up to the potential they were seeking and this was mostly due to lack of fundamentals - namely holding their guitar in the 'weirdest ways.'

Once I corrected this, they were able to reach notes that weren't in their grasp and were less tired at the end of a session. Many, if not all of them were able to have those 'wow' moments of improvement because they were no longer impeded by improperly holding the guitar.

It's the first, and most basic thing that is taught, has been for decades, and there is a reason for that.
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:13 AM
Paddy1951 Paddy1951 is offline
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I think a good definition of a bad habit, as it pertains to playing an instument, is any action or inaction that prevents you from playing the instrument well, now or in the future and one that you may have to unlearn.
As an example... I had a few guitar lessons when I was pretty young. I was taught NOT to use my thumb over the top of neck to create chords or single notes.
Now, I suspect I was getting this from a classically trained instructor. I really don't remember. Classical players, to my knowledge, do not use their thumbs to fret while playing. If this were something you got into doing repeatedly, it would become a bad habit.

DISCLAIMER: I make no judgements as to the good or bad of using your thumb. Got that? [emoji16] It is just an example.

The problem I see with the internet is that anybody can be an expert. I teach an instrument, not guitar. There is a person on YouTube that bills herself as an expert. She has a series of educational videos. There is something she demonstrates in a video that is flat out, wrong. I have done remedial work with people that learned from her videos and got into the habit of doing things wrong.
There can be stylistic differences of opinion on how something should be done. There are basics that can be based ergonomics, physics, etc. The trouble is that a beginner may not understand the differences between these qualities.

I hope this helps.
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:26 AM
radiofm74 radiofm74 is offline
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There’s all sort of bad habits, and even allowing for a some latitude in individual playing styles I don’t think that anything goes. Here are a few off the top of my head:
- not having the fingers at the right angle on the fretboard (--> buzzes)
- holding the guitar so your shoulders are crooked (--> back problems)
- fretting with too much force (--> involuntary bending, cramping…)
- unnecessary tension in the right hand (--> lack of fluidity and stamina)

etc etc

I am guilty myself of some bad habits (e.g. bending over to see the fretboard) and I think getting rid of them is a way to play better and play healthier. Lessons with a good teacher that has you in the room and actually sees you are irreplaceable. YT videos can help (if you select well) but they don’t see you and can’t give you tailored advice.
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:36 AM
Nymuso Nymuso is offline
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Another poster talks of impeding ones potential. I think whether something is a bad habit relates to one's goals rather than his potential.

In another thread there is a discussion of Richie Havens' technique of tuning to a chord then fretting by barring with his thumb. Is this a bad habit? Well, if your goal is to become a studio guitarist, I'd say yes. If you're Richie Havens and have found something that works for you in your chosen genre, well, no it is not.

I have plenty of what some would refer to as "bad habits," and I have been employing them in my playing for about 53 years. Consequently my belief is that any technique you employ that stands between you and your playing goals is a bad habit. Other than that, go with what works.
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:55 AM
Wadcutter Wadcutter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby Walker View Post
I will respectfully disagree. I've been teaching guitar for over 40 years and have come across many players who display the bad habits you're speaking of. Not one of them was playing up to the potential they were seeking and this was mostly due to lack of fundamentals - namely holding their guitar in the 'weirdest ways.'

Once I corrected this, they were able to reach notes that weren't in their grasp and were less tired at the end of a session. Many, if not all of them were able to have those 'wow' moments of improvement because they were no longer impeded by improperly holding the guitar.

It's the first, and most basic thing that is taught, has been for decades, and there is a reason for that.
All right, I’ll buy that Toby. So what’s the proper way to hold a guitar?
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:56 AM
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While nothing is written in stone and everybody is obviously physically and mentally different .. I think Toby hit the nail on the head. There are in fact general positions the tend to allow more efficient movement. There are arguably more efficient methods for learning the "theory" etc. both of which can be beneficial ...
Now as to whether or not any particular individual "teacher" can bring those to the table for you as an individual, and relate those general concepts to you specifically ? is a different discussion.
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:47 AM
vindibona1 vindibona1 is offline
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First it is important in this discussion to define "habit" in the context of playing musical instruments. A habit is something you do instinctually without much or any deliberate thought. Your brain gets programmed to do something in a certain way without thinking about it. Example: I have a finger picking pattern to several songs. The pattern is "habitual" because my fingers just do what they've been trained to do. In fact, if I were to try to cerebral-ize what my fingers were doing instinctively in many cases I wouldn't be able to. To do so I would have to let them just play and then try to witness and re-remember what they are actually doing.

A "BAD" habit is when your brain is programmed to do something incorrectly. Bad habits come in many different forms. To illustrate this, one of my trumpet students has been trying to learn an etude. It has a lot of musical patterns but every couple measures the pattern breaks for a variation. He began practicing by following the pattern and failed to recognize the variation. After he practices those few measures incorrectly the habit of playing them incorrectly was ingrained. Unless he thinks about it cerebrally as he is playing he will continue to screw that measure up. It only took a couple incorrect practice repetitions to ingrain the error. In trying to overcome the habit he will have to practice it without error HUNDREDS of times before the incorrect pattern in his brain is over-written. Think about it... It only took about 10 times to program the error but will take hundreds of correct repetitions to undo the incorrect programming.

While the technique of playing guitar is different than trumpet, the idea of muscle memory programming is the same. Bad habits can form musically, technically or physically. While the physical aspect of guitar isn't nearly as complicated or demanding as the trumpet, it has just as many pitfalls in different areas as a multi-note instrument can bring to the party.

Why I strongly believe that face-to-face lessons provide are vastly superior to online lessons is that they introduce new material and provide instant feedback before errors or bad habits develop. A bad habit can take 5 minutes to learn and eons to unlearn.

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Old 12-28-2018, 11:08 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nymuso View Post
any technique you employ that stands between you and your playing goals is a bad habit.
Precisely. The issue is that, as a beginner, you don't know what those risky techniques are.

You may know the destination of your journey, but the path that looks most likely to lead there from where you're standing might not be the most direct. You can't see round the next corner, or over the next hill.

Without teaching, it's easy to adopt positions or techniques which feel comfortable and intuitive, but will get in the way as your technique improves. That's not a problem unless those positions or techniques have become habits - which makes them harder to correct. The more habituated they are, the harder it is to find your way back to the correct route.

The alternative - as you say - is to live with the route you've chosen. Either (a) you accept that it will take longer to get to your original destination (if you ever can), or (b) you accept the path you're on, wherever that leads.

Being self-taught, I acquired two habits I'd call unorthodox, if not actually "bad".
One is that I fingerpick primarily with my middle finger, not my index. When I use two fingers, it's middle and ring, and only use the index when I need a third.
The other is the way I hold a pick, which is between the tips of thumb, index and middle fingers - mainly thumb and middle, supported by index. The orthodox pick grip (between thumb and side of curled index) feels very awkward and clumsy to me - even so, I've found I can play single string lead lines much quicker with that grip. However, strumming feels very clumsy and crude with that grip - I can control dynamics and articulation much better with my grip, because it's easier to vary the attack and pick angle. But I don't bother to change grip when soloing - I've worked around my "bad habit" in that sense. And I often play lead (electric) with thumb and fingers anyway.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Wadcutter View Post
All right, I’ll buy that Toby. So what’s the proper way to hold a guitar?
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:32 PM
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I started taking lessons this year with a new guitar teacher and she made one minor adjustment in the curve of my thumb. I couldn't believe the how much better tone and volume I got out of my bass strings with that one small change. So, yes, having a knowledgeable person give clear feedback on technique and body mechanics can make a huge difference.

I think that another bad habit that players have is not listening to what they are playing and really asking - does it sound musical? I have really had to learn how to listen and what to listen for so I can sound my best and get the best from the lovely instruments that I am lucky to own and play.

Best,
Jayne
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Old 12-28-2018, 05:27 PM
Wadcutter Wadcutter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby Walker View Post
Thanks very much Toby, very helpful, I appreciate it.
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Old 12-28-2018, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymarsch View Post
I think that another bad habit that players have is not listening to what they are playing and really asking - does it sound musical? I have really had to learn how to listen and what to listen for so I can sound my best and get the best from the lovely instruments that I am lucky to own and play.
Best,
Jayne

Excellent point Jayne!
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