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  #31  
Old 09-23-2023, 08:19 PM
Matthew Sarad Matthew Sarad is offline
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We still have the '31 Model A I drove my senior year in '72-73. Big brother has his Jeepster.
My son has an '82 Mercedes diesel that also runs on vegetable oil. His '93 Corolla wagon is well over 200,000 miles.
My 2008 Tacoma has 231,000 miles.
The wife's 2008 Outback has 101,000.

We have no plans to buy new.
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  #32  
Old 09-25-2023, 04:11 PM
LiveMusic LiveMusic is offline
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There are some good comments in here about maybe it is not as bad as it seems regarding cars and their cost these days. I don't think that holds for trucks. Every guy I know, including myself, owns a truck. But, this is the south. Truck prices seems nuts to me and I have even 'studied' it and done some ciphering, as Jethro says. IMO, they're overpriced. Because they can. The market hasn't balked like I am.

It is commonly touted that trucks are the highest profit vehicles for automakers. They are stupid expensive. Since I have the money saved up, I can buy whatever I want. I could buy one between, say, $50,000 and $110,000? I could pay a hundred grand because I have it in the nest egg. But I don't want to. Why? Because they're too dang big. I hate them! They are taller, wider and longer. I dunno where this will end but I even know of new truck buyers who are complaining they are a pain to drive in the city.

My perception is that this occurred because "It's the American way." Bigger. Everything bigger. And tons of bells and whistles.

I almost pulled the trigger on one the other day. It was 'only' $50k, and I thought, man, this truck is close enough to what I need and want that I am going to buy it because I am tired of looking! It had 'enough' bells and whistles. Then I thought to take a pic of the sticker and scrutinize it. I found that it mentioned a certain engine, but not any specs. I googled the engine name and found that it is a 4-cylinder. I do not want any 4-cylinger 1/2 ton truck. I pull trailers. They didn't list the engine size on the sticker because they know it's a negative! I bet that Chevrolet dealer is NOT going to buy any more 1/2 ton trucks with 4-cyl motors. They had two of those trucks and this one has been on the lot for about a year. Unsold. People down here are not going to buy 4-cyl trucks IMO. A woman bought the other one. Guys won't.

Anyway, I recently test drove three 1/2 tons and they are just SO big, I didn't like them. I am going to have to get over it if I want a new 1/2 ton because, to my knowledge, all of them have gone big. (Unless you buy a 'small' truck like a Colorado, Ranger, Frontier. That is smaller than I want.) I could actually live with owning a Chevy Colorado but I'd have to also own a 2nd truck, 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton because I need to pull stuff and the Colorado is too small.

The other option is to buy used and I have certainly spent some time looking but I have not scored. Twice, I have jumped on a find but both times, "it just sold."
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  #33  
Old 09-25-2023, 06:59 PM
Driftless Driftless is offline
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Originally Posted by LiveMusic View Post
My perception is that this occurred because "It's the American way." Bigger. Everything bigger. And tons of bells and whistles.
Not everything's bigger. The beds are shrinking while the rest of the truck gets bigger. Trucks aren't made to work any more. They're made for posers, they're overcomplicated (to make them expensive to buy and repair), and they look stupid.
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  #34  
Old 09-26-2023, 07:35 AM
RedJoker RedJoker is offline
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Due to the huge amounts of bells and whistles that get added to vehicles, we ordered our last vehicle and were able to knock ~$15k off of what was available on the lot. It was even cheaper than every used option that we found with under 100k miles.

The two options we got were a tow hitch and a light in the cargo area. It STILL has far more features than any vehicle I've ever owned.
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  #35  
Old 09-26-2023, 08:45 AM
Rolph Rolph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveMusic View Post
There are some good comments in here about maybe it is not as bad as it seems regarding cars and their cost these days. I don't think that holds for trucks. Every guy I know, including myself, owns a truck. But, this is the south. Truck prices seems nuts to me and I have even 'studied' it and done some ciphering, as Jethro says. IMO, they're overpriced. Because they can. The market hasn't balked like I am.

It is commonly touted that trucks are the highest profit vehicles for automakers. They are stupid expensive. Since I have the money saved up, I can buy whatever I want. I could buy one between, say, $50,000 and $110,000? I could pay a hundred grand because I have it in the nest egg. But I don't want to. Why? Because they're too dang big. I hate them! They are taller, wider and longer. I dunno where this will end but I even know of new truck buyers who are complaining they are a pain to drive in the city.

My perception is that this occurred because "It's the American way." Bigger. Everything bigger. And tons of bells and whistles.

I almost pulled the trigger on one the other day. It was 'only' $50k, and I thought, man, this truck is close enough to what I need and want that I am going to buy it because I am tired of looking! It had 'enough' bells and whistles. Then I thought to take a pic of the sticker and scrutinize it. I found that it mentioned a certain engine, but not any specs. I googled the engine name and found that it is a 4-cylinder. I do not want any 4-cylinger 1/2 ton truck. I pull trailers. They didn't list the engine size on the sticker because they know it's a negative! I bet that Chevrolet dealer is NOT going to buy any more 1/2 ton trucks with 4-cyl motors. They had two of those trucks and this one has been on the lot for about a year. Unsold. People down here are not going to buy 4-cyl trucks IMO. A woman bought the other one. Guys won't.

Anyway, I recently test drove three 1/2 tons and they are just SO big, I didn't like them. I am going to have to get over it if I want a new 1/2 ton because, to my knowledge, all of them have gone big. (Unless you buy a 'small' truck like a Colorado, Ranger, Frontier. That is smaller than I want.) I could actually live with owning a Chevy Colorado but I'd have to also own a 2nd truck, 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton because I need to pull stuff and the Colorado is too small.

The other option is to buy used and I have certainly spent some time looking but I have not scored. Twice, I have jumped on a find but both times, "it just sold."
I couldn't agree with you more. Apparently American men, (many) are fixated on overcompensating for something missing. These enormous trucks line up very dangerously with smaller vehicles, in a 2 lane highway lifestyle like we have at Calif. Central Coast, where almost all of them tailgate on freeway. Just Ridiculous!
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  #36  
Old 09-26-2023, 10:03 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveMusic View Post
There are some good comments in here about maybe it is not as bad as it seems regarding cars and their cost these days. I don't think that holds for trucks. Every guy I know, including myself, owns a truck. But, this is the south. Truck prices seems nuts to me and I have even 'studied' it and done some ciphering, as Jethro says. IMO, they're overpriced. Because they can. The market hasn't balked like I am.

It is commonly touted that trucks are the highest profit vehicles for automakers. They are stupid expensive. Since I have the money saved up, I can buy whatever I want. I could buy one between, say, $50,000 and $110,000? I could pay a hundred grand because I have it in the nest egg. But I don't want to. Why? Because they're too dang big. I hate them! They are taller, wider and longer. I dunno where this will end but I even know of new truck buyers who are complaining they are a pain to drive in the city.

My perception is that this occurred because "It's the American way." Bigger. Everything bigger. And tons of bells and whistles.

I almost pulled the trigger on one the other day. It was 'only' $50k, and I thought, man, this truck is close enough to what I need and want that I am going to buy it because I am tired of looking! It had 'enough' bells and whistles. Then I thought to take a pic of the sticker and scrutinize it. I found that it mentioned a certain engine, but not any specs. I googled the engine name and found that it is a 4-cylinder. I do not want any 4-cylinger 1/2 ton truck. I pull trailers. They didn't list the engine size on the sticker because they know it's a negative! I bet that Chevrolet dealer is NOT going to buy any more 1/2 ton trucks with 4-cyl motors. They had two of those trucks and this one has been on the lot for about a year. Unsold. People down here are not going to buy 4-cyl trucks IMO. A woman bought the other one. Guys won't.

Anyway, I recently test drove three 1/2 tons and they are just SO big, I didn't like them. I am going to have to get over it if I want a new 1/2 ton because, to my knowledge, all of them have gone big. (Unless you buy a 'small' truck like a Colorado, Ranger, Frontier. That is smaller than I want.) I could actually live with owning a Chevy Colorado but I'd have to also own a 2nd truck, 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton because I need to pull stuff and the Colorado is too small.

The other option is to buy used and I have certainly spent some time looking but I have not scored. Twice, I have jumped on a find but both times, "it just sold."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolph View Post
I couldn't agree with you more. Apparently American men, (many) are fixated on overcompensating for something missing. These enormous trucks line up very dangerously with smaller vehicles, in a 2 lane highway lifestyle like we have at Calif. Central Coast, where almost all of them tailgate on freeway. Just Ridiculous!
The modern turbo engines are better than many think. Our work fleet and the ones vendors have support that. There's a YouTube video from the popular TFL guys interviewing the makers on these engines. Thing is, that is not likely to do much against emotive stuff and willful ignorance.

I'm 10 years now without owning a pickup and heavier frame-based vehicle but it might take someone else also being Asperger or logical to understand. I rent two axle trailers open and closed, 8 ft bed 3/4 ton or true work pickups, and also rent small box trucks. It's far superior. It's maybe $150-$200 some years and has been up towards $1000. It always means the right tool for the job and rest of my long road trips in a nice wagon or the Sienna van more comfy.

Something funny in my volunteer work is having associates with these short bed huge pickups calling me because the van actually carries more. Another is leaving Home Depot or similar with the van full and a trailer.

There's probably no good or easy answer for the sentiments many have. A lot of people are not comfy in their own skin and also fearful. When I was a director (board of directors) of a shooting range most all the people challenges of ego and behavior around guns that were troubling drove the sort of poseur class pickup I think you are describing. Now at retirement age I'm glad to not be part of that and stay off the radar.

Beyond the cosplay, people like to try stuff and have a be prepared mentality. I could easily see myself there if I didn't mature over time and have the work experiences I've had.

Anyway, the new power plants are better than many think, and from our work fleet I'm very much convinced EVs are better for a lot of towing anyway.
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  #37  
Old 09-26-2023, 12:00 PM
GCWaters GCWaters is offline
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I drove a Ridgeline for 12 years and loved it, especially the AWD and the size.

When it came time to trade, though, I went with an F150 for two reasons.

First, there was an increasing number of times that I needed regular 4wd, and the Ford provided that.

Second, there was an increasing number of times that I needed to back up a trailer, and I absolutely suck at that. I don't know if it's the glasses (progressive), my depth perception, or something else, but I absolutely can't do it. Don't tell me to go practice, I have; I suck at it. But with the trailer backup tool on the F150, I can do it--it sometimes takes me a little longer than others, but I can do it.

The size is a bit of a pain. I need a step stool to check the oil, and parking at the supermarket can be an adventure. I also miss the AWD sometimes in winter--I need to improve my tires a bit, or else get true winter tires. But the cab is extremely comfortable, the ride is acceptable, and the gas mileage is good--I really like the 6-cyl eco flex--even better than the Honda was. I also got a very good deal on price, though those days do seem to be over now...
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  #38  
Old 09-26-2023, 12:37 PM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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Quote:
I do not want a 4 cylinder 1/2 ton truck

That would have been a really bad mistake. You never regret getting more engine for a truck, especially one like a half ton pickup. My 2000 Sierra came with a 4.8L V8, and it was fine for towing. A 6 cylinder might have struggled. 4 cylinder? I didnít even think it was an option for 1/2 ton pickups.
The Toyota dealer was selling me hard on a 4 cylinder Tacoma he had on the lot but I opted for the bigger 6 cylinder engine. That was the right choice. Even for the smaller Tacoma, 6 feels and drives better than just a 4.
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  #39  
Old 09-26-2023, 01:22 PM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitfiddlemann View Post

That would have been a really bad mistake. You never regret getting more engine for a truck, especially one like a half ton pickup. My 2000 Sierra came with a 4.8L V8, and it was fine for towing. A 6 cylinder might have struggled. 4 cylinder? I didnít even think it was an option for 1/2 ton pickups.
The Toyota dealer was selling me hard on a 4 cylinder Tacoma he had on the lot but I opted for the bigger 6 cylinder engine. That was the right choice. Even for the smaller Tacoma, 6 feels and drives better than just a 4.
Smaller displacement engines with turbochargers and in some cases hybrid added will be the future if not the very near future unless one pursues older vehicles. Fleets will choose what's more efficient including EVs that have superior characteristics for doing work.

At work the the big Silverado replaced by an EV totally helps tell the other story. It is far more powerful, no wasting time filling it with gasoline let alone the cost, and range is never a problem for nearly all use. A Ford and Rivian pull the loaded 2 axle trailer on 200 mi legs often.

Our van purchases are on hold but not Ford has a longer range van.
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  #40  
Old 09-26-2023, 03:05 PM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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Originally Posted by imwjl View Post
Smaller displacement engines with turbochargers and in some cases hybrid added will be the future if not the very near future unless one pursues older vehicles. Fleets will choose what's more efficient including EVs that have superior characteristics for doing work.

At work the the big Silverado replaced by an EV totally helps tell the other story. It is far more powerful, no wasting time filling it with gasoline let alone the cost, and range is never a problem for nearly all use. A Ford and Rivian pull the loaded 2 axle trailer on 200 mi legs often.

Our van purchases are on hold but not Ford has a longer range van.
Yes, no doubt my post was dated based on older technology.
But, curious as to how big the battery is on the powerful EV truck that replaced the Silverado, and how long does it take to charge it?
That's still one big if I have about EVs and EV trucks. I just can't imagine waiting around a half-hour, or probably more for larger batteries, at some charging station. I'm OK with charging at home, but I think it's still a big negative holding EVs back for people that are on the road. I hope I'm wrong.
Also, the last Rivian I saw had basically no bed to haul stuff in. I'm wondering what their thinking was when they designed it. Just looks? Seems silly to own a truck if you can't use it for what it was purposed for initially.
I think it will still take a while for EVs to overcome certain major hurdles before it can "take off" the way people want.
Like, current diesel trucks have 2000 mile + ranges on one tank of fuel that takes 30 min. to fill, whereas EV equivalents have an 8000Lb battery that takes 10 hours to re-charge and provides a 500 mile range.
I'm all for getting rid of diesel engines for cleaner air, but the picture looks different if you factor in the economy that depends on it.
In some ways, it's still very much an emerging technology with puzzle pieces that have yet to be placed. Just my opinion.
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  #41  
Old 09-26-2023, 03:11 PM
Don Lampson Don Lampson is offline
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I've only bought two new rigs. The 1st, was a 1991 Mazda extended cab P/U, for just under $12000... The 2nd, is a 2007, Tacoma cab +, for a bit under 20K out the door... I'll probably be driving it, when St. Peter calls me home?

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  #42  
Old 09-26-2023, 03:20 PM
GCWaters GCWaters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitfiddlemann View Post

Also, the last Rivian I saw had basically no bed to haul stuff in. I'm wondering what their thinking was when they designed it. Just looks? Seems silly to own a truck if you can't use it for what it was purposed for initially.
I think you have to remember that trucks have multiple purposes based on the user...We don't all need a full-size bed. I have a short bed, and it works just fine for 99% of my needs. When it doesn't, I have an extender that mounts on the trailer hitch that almost always lets me carry what I need to carry.
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  #43  
Old 09-26-2023, 03:40 PM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitfiddlemann View Post
Yes, no doubt my post was dated based on older technology.
But, curious as to how big the battery is on the powerful EV truck that replaced the Silverado, and how long does it take to charge it?
That's still one big if I have about EVs and EV trucks. I just can't imagine waiting around a half-hour, or probably more for larger batteries, at some charging station. I'm OK with charging at home, but I think it's still a big negative holding EVs back for people that are on the road. I hope I'm wrong.
Also, the last Rivian I saw had basically no bed to haul stuff in. I'm wondering what their thinking was when they designed it. Just looks? Seems silly to own a truck if you can't use it for what it was purposed for initially.
I think it will still take a while for EVs to overcome certain major hurdles before it can "take off" the way people want.
Like, current diesel trucks have 2000 mile + ranges on one tank of fuel that takes 30 min. to fill, whereas EV equivalents have an 8000Lb battery that takes 10 hours to re-charge and provides a 500 mile range.
I'm all for getting rid of diesel engines for cleaner air, but the picture looks different if you factor in the economy that depends on it.
In some ways, it's still very much an emerging technology with puzzle pieces that have yet to be placed. Just my opinion.
I don't want any misunderstandings or to be wrong. It is easy to look up the Tesla, Ford and Rivian specs that are the brands the company's owned, owns or leases. So far in electrification and getting the whole enterprise in renewables and trying an off grid charger it's all worked well.

You don't buy EVs for regular 2000 mile or even 500 mile trips loaded down but they work well for area trips and 200-275 miles.

You're typically sleeping when they charge or the owner/VP who manages ops I report to who's very hands on will do a little charging when he's at a location. He has and has had Tesla cars too and is always pointing out the occasional wait for a charge is never worth all the time wasted getting gasoline or diesel.

This might be important for the understanding. All our store locations are where transportation and infrastructure are pretty good. Where one lives can make a big difference.

A most interesting thing to me for the work/pro EVs is starting to see them in remote places where getting gasoline or diesel is a bother and/or expensive. I've seen the Ford pickup at a very remote resort and some dairy farm operations where they obviously have the electricity.

They aren't for everything but I've found it neat to work where someone is at it and have the my own eyes experience. My guess is they would work well for a lot more people than they realize. I'm sure most people do most driving where they work most of the time.
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  #44  
Old 09-26-2023, 04:13 PM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rolph View Post
I couldn't agree with you more. Apparently American men, (many) are fixated on overcompensating for something missing. These enormous trucks line up very dangerously with smaller vehicles, in a 2 lane highway lifestyle like we have at Calif. Central Coast, where almost all of them tailgate on freeway. Just Ridiculous!
I totally agree and these people buying “Jumbo” guitars ought to learn to get by with a parlor. It’s much safer in a jam session, especially in these smaller rooms.
I’m wondering about this “over-compensation” thing myself.
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  #45  
Old 09-27-2023, 05:42 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
I totally agree and these people buying ďJumboĒ guitars ought to learn to get by with a parlor. Itís much safer in a jam session, especially in these smaller rooms.
Iím wondering about this ďover-compensationĒ thing myself.
Are you saying something like the right OM or 14 fret 000 is kind of like modern minivans have more power, utility and luxury than many realize or care to acknowledge?
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