Have any of you built a bad guitar?

[redir]

Oh God Printer... Forgive me for laughing so hard If it was me I probably would have smashed it but I'm glad you shared the pic. We ALL can learn from ours and others mistakes.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by koolimy

I found while building that the negative aspects of my personality are all the traits you don't want when building an acoustic guitar. Namely, impulsivity, lack of patience, carelessness, and attention to detail LOL.

When I first started making guitars, I believed that anyone who wanted to badly enough could make a quality guitar. I have long since found that that is not true. Making a guitar requires certain personality traits, not the least of which is attention to detail and at least some element of perfectionism. Making a guitar is a long, involved, complicated series of planing and steps.

As it is my first build, I wanted to get the experience of going through all the steps necessary to build a guitar. Hopefully if I build another I will learn from this and be more careful with each step.

I don't want to discourage you from making further guitars, but making a guitar from a kit is, generally, not an introduction to "all the steps necessary to build a guitar". Depending upon the kit, it is, generally, an introduction to assembly of components, setup and finishing.

Nearly all fine woodworking starts with establishing and maintaining reference datum planes, edges or axes - often a "flat" (i.e. true) face and one edge that is "flat" and square to the face. If that face isn't flat and its edge isn't flat and square, any sort of joinery becomes difficult, as does accurate measurement of any kind. Without accurate measurement fit and finish are compromised and the quality of the work diminishes.

Traditionally, apprentice woodworkers learned how to take rough-sawn boards and make them "four square" - by first creating a flat face, then a flat and square edge, then established the other two surfaces parallel to their respective first two. Those two initial references then became the basis for nearly all subsequent work.

Establishing and maintaining reference surfaces/planes teaches a mindset and an orderly approach to subsequent work. That is especially true in guitar making, be it the reference of the face (gluing surface) of the neck or of the fingerboard or of the centreline of the guitar: a playable guitar is based upon creating accurate, specific geometry. During the building process, allowing these references to be lost or compromised makes the building much more difficult. Learning how to maintain these references and use them is part of the learning process.

As you've learned from experience, one of the ways to lose these references is through poor sanding practices.


During four decades of making guitars and related instruments, I've made just about every mistake that can be made - not usually all on the same instrument. At each step in the guitar making process there is the chance of making a mistake.

Someone once said that a master craftsperson is not one who doesn't make mistakes, but is one who knows how to fix his or her mistakes. Often, experience is the best teacher on how to fix and avoid repeating mistakes.

Depending upon the severity of my mistakes, some instruments were cut in half, some were never completed, some were completed and sold for the cost of my materials and others just sit in a case in a corner as substandard or awaiting repair or modification.

[koolimy]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

When I first started making guitars, I believed that anyone who wanted to badly enough could make a quality guitar. I have long since found that that is not true. Making a guitar requires certain personality traits, not the least of which is attention to detail and at least some element of perfectionism. Making a guitar is a long, involved, complicated series of planing and steps.



I don't want to discourage you from making further guitars, but making a guitar from a kit is, generally, not an introduction to "all the steps necessary to build a guitar". Depending upon the kit, it is, generally, an introduction to assembly of components, setup and finishing.

Nearly all fine woodworking starts with establishing and maintaining reference datum planes, edges or axes - often a "flat" (i.e. true) face and one edge that is "flat" and square to the face. If that face isn't flat and its edge isn't flat and square, any sort of joinery becomes difficult, as does accurate measurement of any kind. Without accurate measurement fit and finish are compromised and the quality of the work diminishes.

Traditionally, apprentice woodworkers learned how to take rough-sawn boards and make them "four square" - by first creating a flat face, then a flat and square edge, then established the other two surfaces parallel to their respective first two. Those two initial references then became the basis for nearly all subsequent work.

Establishing and maintaining reference surfaces/planes teaches a mindset and an orderly approach to subsequent work. That is especially true in guitar making, be it the reference of the face (gluing surface) of the neck or of the fingerboard or of the centreline of the guitar: a playable guitar is based upon creating accurate, specific geometry. During the building process, allowing these references to be lost or compromised makes the building much more difficult. Learning how to maintain these references and use them is part of the learning process.

As you've learned from experience, one of the ways to lose these references is through poor sanding practices.


During four decades of making guitars and related instruments, I've made just about every mistake that can be made - not usually all on the same instrument. At each step in the guitar making process there is the chance of making a mistake.

Someone once said that a master craftsperson is not one who doesn't make mistakes, but is one who knows how to fix his or her mistakes. Often, experience is the best teacher on how to fix and avoid repeating mistakes.

Depending upon the severity of my mistakes, some instruments were cut in half, some were never completed, some were completed and sold for the cost of my materials and others just sit in a case in a corner as substandard or awaiting repair or modification.

Thank you for your reply! Maybe I should have worded it better. I definitely understand that assembling a kit is not all the steps necessary to build a guitar. I know that there are quite a lot of difficult steps prior to the kit coming to me that thankfully Mr. Hall took care of. I guess I wanted to convey that as a beginner with no prior woodworking experience and without a proper workspace, especially with the aforementioned personality traits, my biggest hurdle was fighting discouragement. I thought it would be better to build a bad quality guitar than no guitar. At least I would have had fun and learned something, and have a low quality instrument that looks good from afar LOL.

I especially appreciate your points about one of the fundamentals of woodworking being establishing and maintaining reference planes. I did not know that was one of the most important parts of woodworking, although I kind of understand it now after my ordeal. This thread has been a lot better than I thought because all posts have been educational and some quite hilarious.

[phavriluk]

We'll get a much more manageable answer if we ask who HASN'T built a bad guitar...

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by koolimy

I especially appreciate your points about one of the fundamentals of woodworking being establishing and maintaining reference planes.

I'm hard-pressed to think of ANY manufacturing process that doesn't rely upon "stable" references, be it hand tools, machine tools or CNC machinery.

Start with the basics. If you want to end up with a piece of wood, say a guitar neck, for example, that is of uniform thickness that has a flat, smooth gluing surface for the fingerboard, how is that accomplished?

If the bottom of the fingerboard isn't flat or smooth - it is twisted, has bumps and hollows in it - and the gluing surface of the neck is randomly also not flat or smooth - it is twisted in its own direction and has its own bumps and hollows in it - can those two pieces be glued together that 1) provide a strong glue joint, with no visible gaps and 2) provides a fingerboard playing surface that is "straight"? If not, how well is that guitar going to play?

[viento]

That´s it!

Quoted by charles Tauber:

"Someone once said that a master craftsperson is not one who doesn't make mistakes,
but is one who knows how to fix his or her mistakes".

[printer2]

Originally Posted by redir

Oh God Printer... Forgive me for laughing so hard If it was me I probably would have smashed it but I'm glad you shared the pic. We ALL can learn from ours and others mistakes.

Of the mistakes in life that I have done and regret, this one barely rates. And sharing these precious moments keeps me humble.

[FrankCousins]

To use a quote from the football manager /coach (soccer for some of you), Ralf Hasenhutel, we never lose, we win or we learn, or we cant really build a bad guitar, its just prototype ;-)

[Rink]

Originally Posted by koolimy

Hopefully if I build another I will learn from this and be more careful with each step.

Yes! You must build another!

[koolimy]

To use a quote from the football manager /coach (soccer for some of you), Ralf Hasenhutel, we never lose, we win or we learn, or we cant really build a bad guitar, its just prototype ;-)

LOL, I love this post! Thanks for the optimism.

Yes! You must build another!

Please don't tempt me! I am not rich and I don't have the means to start building from scratch so I need to temper my desires to build another guitar for a while.

[rollypolly]

Originally Posted by koolimy

Hi, this may be a strange question, but I was wondering if any of y'all built a bad guitar before? If you did, what happened with it? Did you keep it, or did it go into the trash?

I'm asking because I'm on the final stretch of my first kit build and the build quality and fit and finish leave a LOT to be desired. It seems that most people on this forum and others usually come out with a pretty great guitar even on their first try so I was wondering if there were other people like me who have made a pretty bad guitar on their first try LOL.

I've only built one acoustic , about ten years ago with the help of a luthier friend. The neck joint is not dovetail, but it's a solid alternative to it where the neck block goes from the heel to inside the guitar (can't remember the name of the joint as you can see). But the neck is solid and straight. The guitar itself is a little heavy and thus not super loud or resonant, and it's also a single-0 with a deep body, a weird size. So yeah it's a unique build all from scratch but it's spent most of its life in my attic. Still no cracks , so one day I'll add binding and an actual finish of some kind. Even then it won't be the best guitar in the world.

[koolimy]

Originally Posted by rollypolly

I've only built one acoustic , about ten years ago with the help of a luthier friend. The neck joint is not dovetail, but it's a solid alternative to it where the neck block goes from the heel to inside the guitar (can't remember the name of the joint as you can see). But the neck is solid and straight. The guitar itself is a little heavy and thus not super loud or resonant, and it's also a single-0 with a deep body, a weird size. So yeah it's a unique build all from scratch but it's spent most of its life in my attic. Still no cracks , so one day I'll add binding and an actual finish of some kind. Even then it won't be the best guitar in the world.

Wow, 10 years is a long time for a project to go unfinished! I think you should finish the guitar, bad or not. I really enjoyed putting the final touches on my guitar and the satisfaction and feeling of accomplishment of getting to the end of the road was incredible. You must have done something right if the guitar didn't crack without any finish for 10 years!

[printer2]

Originally Posted by rollypolly

I've only built one acoustic , about ten years ago with the help of a luthier friend. The neck joint is not dovetail, but it's a solid alternative to it where the neck block goes from the heel to inside the guitar (can't remember the name of the joint as you can see). But the neck is solid and straight. The guitar itself is a little heavy and thus not super loud or resonant, and it's also a single-0 with a deep body, a weird size. So yeah it's a unique build all from scratch but it's spent most of its life in my attic. Still no cracks , so one day I'll add binding and an actual finish of some kind. Even then it won't be the best guitar in the world.

"I built a race car. It didn't win any races but it finished the race."

Not many people can say that.

[Quickstep192]

Originally Posted by phavriluk

We'll get a much more manageable answer if we ask who HASN'T built a bad guitar...

I’ve never built a bad guitar.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

I’ve never built a bad guitar.

You really should walk on the wild side sometimes.