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  #31  
Old 06-14-2021, 06:55 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by nightchef View Post
So for a concrete example… in this clip:

Would you say the sound of the K&K is being represented accurately? If so, do you prefer it to the sound of the Anthem? If the answer to that second question is “yes”, we just like different sounds. If the answer to the first question is “no”, then maybe we’re dealing with steel-drum syndrome, because that sound is basically what I hear from the K&K in nearly every example available on the web.
Just to clarify, I am not trying to argue that the K&K is the best pickup available. I am just saying that it's not just popular because music stores randomly recommend it. It's popular because it can sound really good. Yes, it might take some eq but what pickup doesn't?

I have seen that comparison before and to be honest, I haven't heard a K&K direct recording that has sounded amazing. Live, it's a completely different experience. Listen to this one for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSYnywhaFxg

Again, I am not trying to say that the K&K is my personal favourite, just defending it a bit. I do like how it makes the strings and overall tone seem a bit fatter. The K&K seems like a great fit for brighter guitars.
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  #32  
Old 06-14-2021, 08:28 PM
DavidE DavidE is offline
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Originally Posted by curbucci View Post
Remember when alot of this forum was smitten with the K&K's. So many recomendations for the K&Ks in the past. Then alot were smitten with the Schatten HFN. Currently it's the Dazzos that are getting a bunch of love around here.
I can say that I really disliked the Shatten because of the extremely low output level that was so different from my other guitars. I'm not hating the K&K, but I would choose the Anthem first.
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  #33  
Old 06-14-2021, 08:29 PM
nightchef nightchef is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I have seen that comparison before and to be honest, I haven't heard a K&K direct recording that has sounded amazing. Live, it's a completely different experience. Listen to this one for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSYnywhaFxg
That’s pretty good. It still has a bit of that closed-off quality on top that I don’t like, but not nearly as much as most web samples I hear.
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  #34  
Old 06-14-2021, 08:53 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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The K&K is especially popular with the flatpick and bluegrass crowd. Usually it is paired with an internal mic, or more recently the ToneDexter IR pedal. I use K&K for the simplicity and lightweight/low impact installation. A person who needs a dedicated stage guitar might prefer an onboard active dual source system like the Anthem or an IR system like Fishman Aura. Dazzo is a great alternative because it is built with the same ceramic piezo as K&K, but the casing, location, and shape "pre EQ" the piezos mechanically instead of electrically. The UltraTonic is another passive option that is K&K like in sound but dramatically improves the feedback resistance with a very clever phase cancellation passive preamp. Those two passive options are more expensive but work well in many guitars.
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Last edited by martingitdave; 06-15-2021 at 06:53 AM.
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  #35  
Old 06-14-2021, 09:05 PM
PANDAPANDELO PANDAPANDELO is offline
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi nc

I've always wanted my guitar to sound like an acoustic when I play through amps or PA.

Till December 2020, the K&K has come closest so far (dual source with internal mic), and it's still my backup.

All pickup systems involve compromise. Not SOME…ALL. Not enough high, too much bass, too much midrange, not enough oomph…the list goes on.

Of all the pickups-n-magic-cures I attempted in my first 40 years of playing, the K&K Pure mini plus Internal mic plus decent preamps came closest to THAT attempted goal, and it's the default system I've been using for the past 17 years..

A year and a half ago I switched to a ToneDexter. I drive it with the Pure Mini installed in all my acoustics, and the internal mics are STILL installed in my guitars to fall back on if something goes wrong with the ToneDexter.

I usually have the best amplified acoustic sound in the room most places I play. I'm not in a contest, and frankly…other than the audience who can truly judge. I just want it to sound great, and not distract me or the audience. I want the music to be the main feature which touches audiences, not the sound.

I just know from the point I started using a K&K dual source system with decent preamps, I'm happy with the tone and performance from the audience's perspective.

The ToneDexter elevates my live sound a notch above that for me.





Have tou tried the Voiceprint DI? Ir only the TD? I'm really curioud about those Stuff paired with a K&K (and compared with the internal Mic of the Trinity).
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  #36  
Old 06-15-2021, 09:06 AM
weshunter weshunter is offline
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I find the K&K to be the best mix of feedback resistance and natural sound. It takes a little eq work to make it sound good, but it’s always able to be fixed with eq.

I recently got a baggs voiceprint di that I really like with it. I prefer it in spades to the tonedexter which I owned for awhile and to the Fishman aura or any of the acoustic ir’s you can buy or find for free (many of which I made myself and have circulated around a lot).

There are other pickup systems that I think sound more natural on their own but they all end up in a situation where the feedback can’t be controlled without radically altering the sound. The K&K never does this. Plus the lack of need for a battery is nice.
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  #37  
Old 06-15-2021, 09:34 AM
SongwriterFan SongwriterFan is offline
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Originally Posted by weshunter View Post
I recently got a baggs voiceprint di that I really like with it. I prefer it in spades to the tonedexter which I owned for awhile
What makes you prefer the VoicePrint to the ToneDexter?
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  #38  
Old 06-15-2021, 11:00 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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I am curious as well. I liked aspects of the Aura and Tonedexter but ultimately, they haven't worked. The Aura has some nice options and it's insanely easy to dial in but I always found the images to be hi-fi and I could never eq that. I like how the VP has the eq for just the IR now. The Tonedexter is impressive but I find it difficult to dial in live.
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  #39  
Old 06-15-2021, 01:32 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curbucci View Post
Remember when alot of this forum was smitten with the K&K's. So many recomendations for the K&Ks in the past. Then alot were smitten with the Schatten HFN. Currently it's the Dazzos that are getting a bunch of love around here.
Well, time marches on and the hot item of last decade sometimes becomes yesterday's news. Both technology and fashion progress constantly.

Anyone here still using MySpace?
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  #40  
Old 06-15-2021, 02:23 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by Gordon Currie View Post
Well, time marches on and the hot item of last decade sometimes becomes yesterday's news. Both technology and fashion progress constantly.

Anyone here still using MySpace?
Haha, the only difference is that with gear, we always circle back. I bet in a few years, the K&K is tops again!
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  #41  
Old 06-15-2021, 02:44 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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My primary issue with K&K is the one size fits all aspect. When told you have to roll the bass all the way down with a dreadnaught, I take that as it has too much bass. Designed for the middle ground. I've grown spoiled about even thinking about EQ. I prefer having a pickup with the correct frequency curve for the guitar.

If you put a pickup in an electric guitar and had to turn the bass off, would that fly with you?

Add the EQ issue to the fact I like the tone, makes Dazzos the choice for me. I'm not chasing tone. I just want something I can plug in, not fuss with, and sounds very good, so Dazzp and SunnAudio for me. I really could not wait to get the K&Ks out of my guitar. I was looking forward to not spending the extra money. Alas, such is life.
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  #42  
Old 06-15-2021, 02:49 PM
waterlooz waterlooz is offline
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K&K & Red-Eye - simple and effective
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  #43  
Old 06-15-2021, 03:21 PM
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ljguitar ljguitar is offline
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Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO View Post
Have tou tried the Voiceprint DI? Ir only the TD? I'm really curioud about those Stuff paired with a K&K (and compared with the internal Mic of the Trinity).
Hi PANDA-Pandelo…
I see no way (nor need) to use the internal mic on my K&K rig with either ToneDexter or Voiceprint.

Both look like products fingerstyle players have wanted for years (even if we didn't realize what we wanted).

I listened to Doug Young's video on the Voiceprint DI for the 4th time…as I'm typing this response (from May, 2021). I'm impressed. It gives a player a lot of control, and you don't need buy/rent/borrow studio mics to record your IR samples.

If you are comfortable playing with parametric EQ on screens, and making adjustments on the phone in combo with the pedal - Voiceprint.

If your priority is to sound as close to the original sound of your guitar as possible through a PA…and capability of tailoring your sound to the room quickly with knobs on the unit, and you have access to quality mics…ToneDexter.

The ToneDexter brings decent sounds with flexible adjustments to the party. The Voiceprint brings the possibility of more improvisation with tone (which may not be popular with sound techs who like ending up with fixed values by end of sound check).

James May (inventor of ToneDexter) shows up in this forum regularly and converses with owners and the curious. Doug Young hangs out here and can answer questions about either unit (in my experience Doug is faster and more responsive than Baggs support).

LAST…
I played for a funeral last week. The sound tech & I met a couple days ahead of time. Huge, open, echo-y auditorium with 25 foot high full-wooden ceiling and a 25 foot high brick wall behind me (seats 250). Music was solo guitar, and uptempo, punchy and heavily rhythmic. Dynamics were soft-as-I dare to loud-as-I-can…

Took me 15 minutes to set up. After 10 seconds playing I realized I couldn't hear what was going on in the room, so I had my gigging partner play my guitar, in my style, through the ToneDexter through the house system.

I walked around for 2 minutes then met the tech at the board. A couple tweaks to the EQ on their X-32 board I was delighted. Back to stage for ½ of first song, and I was done.

Day of the funeral was seamless. Full - room filling sound without a hint of feedback - and focus was on our friend who had passed, not on the equipment.

I love where technology can take us!





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  #44  
Old 06-15-2021, 05:00 PM
weshunter weshunter is offline
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Originally Posted by SongwriterFan View Post
What makes you prefer the VoicePrint to the ToneDexter?

I had a hard time getting the IR capture right with the tonedexter. It would sound good at home and then on the gig be super boomy and then I’d try different mic positions and different mics and different blends and all that and it just never got to where I liked it live. I would think I liked it and then I’d go straight in with the K&K, dial out a little mud and it instantly sounded better, like the guitar was reacting faster or something without the tonedexter.

I got the voiceprint late one afternoon, grabbed a quick capture with my phone before I went to bed that night, went to a gig the next day and plugged it in and even without any eq it already sounded better than the tonedexter. Adjusted the eq a little on the super handy phone app and it was the best my Collings had ever sounded live. I had maybe 5 minutes of time getting it set. I bet I spent 20 hours or so trying to dial in the tone dexter and the voiceprint sounded way better with 5 minutes of work.
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  #45  
Old 06-15-2021, 07:30 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by weshunter View Post
I had a hard time getting the IR capture right with the tonedexter. It would sound good at home and then on the gig be super boomy and then I’d try different mic positions and different mics and different blends and all that and it just never got to where I liked it live. I would think I liked it and then I’d go straight in with the K&K, dial out a little mud and it instantly sounded better, like the guitar was reacting faster or something without the tonedexter.

I got the voiceprint late one afternoon, grabbed a quick capture with my phone before I went to bed that night, went to a gig the next day and plugged it in and even without any eq it already sounded better than the tonedexter. Adjusted the eq a little on the super handy phone app and it was the best my Collings had ever sounded live. I had maybe 5 minutes of time getting it set. I bet I spent 20 hours or so trying to dial in the tone dexter and the voiceprint sounded way better with 5 minutes of work.
I think you just sold me on the Voiceprint. That's exactly how I felt with the Tonedexter. I have come to the conclusion that when a piece of gear requires experimentation or has many features, I just never touch it. That's kind of how I felt with the TD. I just don't really ever just pull a mic out and record that way. Being able to just plop down a phone and make an IR is very intriguing.
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