McPherson Sable or Emerald X30

[mikealpine]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I've also been giving the Sable a harder look these days. I recently (nearly) finished up my executor duties for my mother (almost 93 when Covid-19 likely got her -- she had a good run and was 100% bedridden and mostly unresponsive this last many months). After directing what there was as much as possible to my kids (and the others as explicitly willed), I had a guitar's worth leftover...and bought an electric instead.

The new PRS McCarty thinline is a first for them and hits all my care abouts which starts with light weight. I'm busy with my IR software trying my hand at acoustic guitar emulation. It won't be even close to a real acoustic but good enough for my mostly vocal duo while enabling me to play the electric guitar parts, get this, on a real distorted electric guitar!

Too bad for McPherson.

First, sorry about your mom, but glad she lived a good life!

I have a couple of electric guitars with a Piezo, and while I like them for when I am doing a gig with my band to be able to fill in parts that more acoustic in nature, when I am playing purely an acoustic gig, I prefer to have an acoustic. I had a PRS Hollow Body II with a Piezo, and it was lovely, so I'm sure you'll enjoy having yours. Enjoy!

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Sorry if I'm late to the game I was taking one of my AGF breaks. I currently own both The Sable and the X30 but they're apples to oranges different, one being jumbo and the other 000 size. If you're looking for opinions I'll certainly give you mine but just remember we all have different preferences, expectations, etc. so YMMV.

The Sable is the newest addition for me. I haven't had a chance to take it out in the wild yet due to covid 19 but I can tell you this will be by main gigging guitar. It has a nice warm tone, very wood like, and the volume that comes out of the little box really surprises me. I'll compare the soundboard structure to that of Adirondack spruce in that there's lots of headroom. If you dig in with a pick it really comes to life. The Sable doesn't seem to care if you play it hard or light. For fingerpicking, love the tone it produces just don't expect wood like volume. Every carbon fiber guitar that I've played exhibits the same volume characteristics when played fingerstyle. Don't get me wrong they still produce plenty of volume (for me) fingerstyle, just seems to be the biggest difference that I've noticed when comparing carbon to wood. The Sable doesn't have the fancy contours and bevels but it does have rounded edges and my favorite part is the textured coating on the back and sides. It really prevents the guitar from slipping around on you. The only complaint I have with the Sable is the strap button on the neck heel. It's a personal thing for me I just don't like strap buttons on the neck heel on any cutaway guitar no matter the make. Luckily it's an easy fix. I like Emerald & Godin's strap button location so that's where I relocated the button to on my Sable.

The X30 tone is a little harder to describe for me. It's a warm tone overall but not quite as warm as the Sable. It really has a unique voice. I personally don't think the X30 has too much bass, it's really quite balanced for its size. They did a great job making a big guitar feel smaller with the contours and bevels. When it comes to volume the X30 is not as loud as what you might think. It's plenty loud but when you see the size of the body you might expect it to be much louder than it actually is. The X30 prefers to be played with a lighter touch and a lighter pick. I'll compare it's soundboard to cedar in that when you really dig in it starts sounding weird. I'm basically a light to medium strummer but some songs I play that requires digging in I need to back off a little which is not a big deal for me. One thing nobody seems to talk about here but worth mentioning is the X30 has a wolf note on D/D#. All stringed instruments have wolf notes, some are hidden better than others, but the X30's are right in your face. I can get rid of it completely by adding mass to the bridge but doing so kills too much low end. So here's the thing. When strumming this guitar using chords that contain D/D# I find it actually adds a nice thump to the tone. On the other side though, playing fingerstyle my fingers really make those wolf notes pop to the point where I only use this guitar for strumming and it does that quite well. I'm surprised people don't actually mention this more on here.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, I could include more info but that's enough for now. Both of these guitars are great and I consider myself lucky to have both of them. Both are keepers for me but if I could only have one it would be the Sable as I think it's the better all arounder, at least for me. Any other questions feel free to ask.

This is a very even-handed review with lots of important detail that would help anybody making a decision between (or getting both) of these guitars. I also have the Sable and can concur with what GuitarLuva said here.

As for the length of your post, it was just fine because all of it provided important and insightful details for anyone considering these instruments, which are a sizable investment.

Tony

[casualmusic]

Originally Posted by mikealpine

As mentioned above, I am leaning toward the Sable, though there’s a Rainsong dread calling me. I like the H series, and found one for sale.

Is that the H-DR/T at guitarhanger.com? At 60ish miles from Long Island it would be worth calling them about a field trip to try their H-DR/T, V-DR and N-JM jumbo side by side.

I played the McPherson Kevan Michael (predecessor to the Sable) and a Touring a few years ago and thought the K.M. was the nicest sounding amongst the five carbon fibre guitars I'd played.

I like the H-DR/T I got two months ago a lot and it stopped my speculation about an X30.
.

[Tøf]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

One thing nobody seems to talk about here but worth mentioning is the X30 has a wolf note on D/D#. All stringed instruments have wolf notes, some are hidden better than others, but the X30's are right in your face

Thank you, I’m not crazy after all!!
I sent my X30 back to Emerald for the exact same reason, with the issue exactly at the same frequencies. Emerald slighly modified the relief, changed the saddle for a bone one and told me everything was fine... but of course same problem when I got the guitar back.
I thought I was the problem or I was too picky, but I couldn’t bond with the X30 and sold it.
I now have a Sable which is more to my taste. The only negative is its weight... and a bad smell 😄

[mikealpine]

Originally Posted by Tøf

Thank you, I’m not crazy after all!!
I sent my X30 back to Emerald for the exact same reason, with the issue exactly at the same frequencies. Emerald slighly modified the relief, changed the saddle for a bone one and told me everything was fine... but of course same problem when I got the guitar back.
I thought I was the problem or I was too picky, but I couldn’t bond with the X30 and sold it.
I now have a Sable which is more to my taste. The only negative is its weight... and a bad smell 😄

Is the Sable much heavier? And can you explain the bad smell? Do you find the Sable gives up much volume in comparison to the X3? I also started looked at the Rainsong WS, figuring the H or CO will get me where I want to be totally, but the Sable still really interests me.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Tøf

Thank you, I’m not crazy after all!!
I sent my X30 back to Emerald for the exact same reason, with the issue exactly at the same frequencies. Emerald slighly modified the relief, changed the saddle for a bone one and told me everything was fine... but of course same problem when I got the guitar back.
I thought I was the problem or I was too picky, but I couldn’t bond with the X30 and sold it.
I now have a Sable which is more to my taste. The only negative is its weight... and a bad smell ��

Well you're definitely not crazy. Changing the relief, saddle, strings, etc won't change the resonant frequency of a guitars body. Every guitar body has a resonant frequency and while D/Db is a little odd they must know it's there as they designed the guitar. The X30 that I gave to my uncle was the same as well. I didn't stop me from getting another one though. Like I said it does add a nice thump for strumming but quite annoying for finger and flat picking.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by mikealpine

Is the Sable much heavier? And can you explain the bad smell? Do you find the Sable gives up much volume in comparison to the X3? I also started looked at the Rainsong WS, figuring the H or CO will get me where I want to be totally, but the Sable still really interests me.

The Sable, according to McPherson's website weighs 5.45 lbs. The X30, according to Emerald's website weighs 4.8 lbs. So the Sable is 0.65 lbs heavier than the X30 (yes I subtracted the 2 numbers all by myself with no calculator). Neither of these guitars are too heavy for me, but we all have different preferences.

Regarding the smell I believe he might be referring to smell from the case that of course gets into the guitar. The smell will go away if you keep the guitar out of the case (which I do). Call me crazy though cause whatever smell that was I actually liked it and miss it.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by mikealpine

Do you find the Sable gives up much volume in comparison to the X3?

Ok I just did a simple little volume test of all my acoustic guitars. Please note this is not a scientific test by no means as there's way too many variables that I can't control. String gauge, brand and type would have a big impact on results as well as my ability to consistently hit the strings with the same force. What I did was using using a phone app, I wouldn't count on great accuracy from the app just hoping at least for consistency, I strummed a G chord multiple times with a 0.6mm pick and recorded the highest value for each guitar and here's the results:

Godin Metropolis Cedar Top (D'addario Nickel Bronze Bluegrass Gauge): 73 dB
Emerald X30 (Santa Cruz parabolic medium tension phosphor bronze): 72 dB
Emerald X20 (Ernie Ball aluminum bronze medium): 71 dB
McPherson Sable (Santa Cruz parabolic medium tension phosphor bronze): 72 dB
Gibson Songwriter Deluxe (Santa Cruz parabolic medium tension phosphor bronze): 74 dB
Yamaha LL-TA transacoustic (John Pearse pure nickel mediums): 75 dB

Take all that with a grain of salt. If anyone asked me what my loudest guitar is I would answer the Gibson Songwriter and it probably would be if it had the same nickel strings as the Yamaha. I generally find any nickel acoustic guitar string to produce a little more volume than phosphor bronze. Saddle material is another factor that would add some differences as well and I never mentioned which guitar has which type of saddle. All of these guitars have plenty of volume and I personally don't buy a guitar based on the volume it produces.

[tbeltrans]

This is getting interesting. You folks are discussing stuff that I never even considered when I bought my Sable. It plays nicely, sounds good, looks good, and doesn't have to be pampered, and it was here available locally. That was it for me.

Of course, the sales people at my local Guitar Center were willing to deal, so I got a nice price which didn't hurt either. I don't know how the COVID-19 world looks in that regard, especially since there don't seem to be any Sables around here for sale lately.

Tony

[Tøf]

Regarding the Sable smell, it’s not coming from the case but from the guitar itself. Probably due to the type of glue McPherson is using. But it was more of a recurring joke to say that it’s difficult to find negatives with this guitar

The guitar is heavy, it feels dense, but we’re only talking about a few hundred grams extra.

[mikealpine]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Ok I just did a simple little volume test of all my acoustic guitars. Please note this is not a scientific test by no means as there's way too many variables that I can't control. String gauge, brand and type would have a big impact on results as well as my ability to consistently hit the strings with the same force. What I did was using using a phone app, I wouldn't count on great accuracy from the app just hoping at least for consistency, I strummed a G chord multiple times with a 0.6mm pick and recorded the highest value for each guitar and here's the results:

Godin Metropolis Cedar Top (D'addario Nickel Bronze Bluegrass Gauge): 73 dB
Emerald X30 (Santa Cruz parabolic medium tension phosphor bronze): 72 dB
Emerald X20 (Ernie Ball aluminum bronze medium): 71 dB
McPherson Sable (Santa Cruz parabolic medium tension phosphor bronze): 72 dB
Gibson Songwriter Deluxe (Santa Cruz parabolic medium tension phosphor bronze): 74 dB
Yamaha LL-TA transacoustic (John Pearse pure nickel mediums): 75 dB

Take all that with a grain of salt. If anyone asked me what my loudest guitar is I would answer the Gibson Songwriter and it probably would be if it had the same nickel strings as the Yamaha. I generally find any nickel acoustic guitar string to produce a little more volume than phosphor bronze. Saddle material is another factor that would add some differences as well and I never mentioned which guitar has which type of saddle. All of these guitars have plenty of volume and I personally don't buy a guitar based on the volume it produces.

This is very helpful, thank you! I like a guitar that can produce a lot of volume (providing I like the tone) because I feel it helps when I jam with friends. One plays an old Guild dread that is so loud (but aged and lovely) so if my guitar has some oomph behind it, it helps. And just for my own playing dynamics. I can play a loud guitar softly, but overdrive a quiet guitar if I dig in. Another contender is a Rainsong WS.

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

This is getting interesting. You folks are discussing stuff that I never even considered when I bought my Sable. It plays nicely, sounds good, looks good, and doesn't have to be pampered, and it was here available locally. That was it for me.

Of course, the sales people at my local Guitar Center were willing to deal, so I got a nice price which didn't hurt either. I don't know how the COVID-19 world looks in that regard, especially since there don't seem to be any Sables around here for sale lately.

Tony

Yup...trying to see what COVID deals are to be had.

Originally Posted by Tøf

Regarding the Sable smell, it’s not coming from the case but from the guitar itself. Probably due to the type of glue McPherson is using. But it was more of a recurring joke to say that it’s difficult to find negatives with this guitar

The guitar is heavy, it feels dense, but we’re only talking about a few hundred grams extra.

Gotcha. I usually play solid electrics, so most acoustics feel pretty light.

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

The Sable, according to McPherson's website weighs 5.45 lbs. The X30, according to Emerald's website weighs 4.8 lbs. So the Sable is 0.65 lbs heavier than the X30 (yes I subtracted the 2 numbers all by myself with no calculator). Neither of these guitars are too heavy for me, but we all have different preferences.

Regarding the smell I believe he might be referring to smell from the case that of course gets into the guitar. The smell will go away if you keep the guitar out of the case (which I do). Call me crazy though cause whatever smell that was I actually liked it and miss it.

Again, thanks for all the info!!

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Tøf

Regarding the Sable smell, it’s not coming from the case but from the guitar itself. Probably due to the type of glue McPherson is using. But it was more of a recurring joke to say that it’s difficult to find negatives with this guitar

The guitar is heavy, it feels dense, but we’re only talking about a few hundred grams extra.

Lynyrd Skynyrd - presents a lot of racket about a smell. Most of the racket provided by guitars...



Tony

[byudzai]

My Sable was my first CF acoustic and I played it a bunch, but I got tired of the thin unplugged sound. The X30, to me, blows the Sable away on sound, and I'm always puzzled when people sing the Sable's acoustic praises. It's fine, but it sounds like the thin/small-bodied guitar it is.

The X30 is bulky though, despite how well it fits, and you'll end up using a nimbler guitar for having around the house.

The X30 is my go-to tank for performing. I have a funky Cole Clark I play around the house. My Sable lives in the closet.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by byudzai

My Sable was my first CF acoustic and I played it a bunch, but I got tired of the thin unplugged sound. The X30, to me, blows the Sable away on sound, and I'm always puzzled when people sing the Sable's acoustic praises. It's fine, but it sounds like the thin/small-bodied guitar it is.

The X30 is bulky though, despite how well it fits, and you'll end up using a nimbler guitar for having around the house.

The X30 is my go-to tank for performing. I have a funky Cole Clark I play around the house. My Sable lives in the closet.

I played the Sable and Touring at a local shop. LOVED the Sable- a lot. I like my OF660 far better than the Touring though.

It's really about your style of play. For what I play (with fingers, short nails and an occasional thumbpick), smaller bodied guitars with 12 frets sound about as sweet as I can get- specially with the right strings. I played a RainSong Jumbo once and it was about what I expected- loud but lacking in sweetness and balance. I would love to try an X30 but more out of curiosity. I know I could never live with a guitar that large, and I'm not a small guy.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by byudzai

My Sable was my first CF acoustic and I played it a bunch, but I got tired of the thin unplugged sound. The X30, to me, blows the Sable away on sound, and I'm always puzzled when people sing the Sable's acoustic praises. It's fine, but it sounds like the thin/small-bodied guitar it is.

The X30 is bulky though, despite how well it fits, and you'll end up using a nimbler guitar for having around the house.

The X30 is my go-to tank for performing. I have a funky Cole Clark I play around the house. My Sable lives in the closet.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that's what the forum is all about. There's clearly some differences between older and newer Sables. I've played 2 X30's made from different years, one with the old fretboard and one with the new and they sound exactly the same. I've only ever played one Sable, the one I own, and while I would use a lot of different words to describe how it sounds, "thin" is not among them. As a matter of fact my Sable makes my 3 dreadnoughts sound thin, just don't have the volume they do. The overall tone it produces is more pleasing than the X30 to me, though I like the X30 as well.