10s

[abn556]

I was playing my wife’s 000-15M last night, going back and forth from CGCFCE to DADGAD to Standard tunings. On the final tune back to standard tuning the High E broke at the tuner post. This is the first string I have broken in years. The strings on the guitar at the time were Monel Custom Lights - 11-52s. So I set the guitar aside and picked up something else to finish playing.

This AM I went out to the music room to restring her 000-15 and realized that I must have ordered some 10-47s Martin Retro Monels by mistake from Amazon last time. As it was all the Monels that I have in stock, I went ahead and restrung the guitar with the 10-47s. I really didn’t have any expectations of these strings, but I was pleasantly surprised after I tuned the guitar up. Not only did the guitar sound good (in fact it sounded the same), but the playability is nearly as good as an electric. Light and super fast for blues playing. It takes a little lighter touch with the pick (Primetone .88) on chords, but otherwise I actually really like the 10s. I am going to start keeping one of my acoustics strung up with them from now on.

[jpd]

Use them on my O-15(short scale)! I feel they were made for a hog top... I like the 12-52's on my long scales. You do feel closer to an electric than an acoustic with the smooth touch of Monel's.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by abn556

I was playing my wife’s 000-15M last night, going back and forth from CGCFCE to DADGAD to Standard tunings. On the final tune back to standard tuning the High E broke at the tuner post. This is the first string I have broken in years. The strings on the guitar at the time were Monel Custom Lights - 11-52s. So I set the guitar aside and picked up something else to finish playing.

This AM I went out to the music room to restring her 000-15 and realized that I must have ordered some 10-47s Martin Retro Monels by mistake from Amazon last time. As it was all the Monels that I have in stock, I went ahead and restrung the guitar with the 10-47s. I really didn’t have any expectations of these strings, but I was pleasantly surprised after I tuned the guitar up. Not only did the guitar sound good (in fact it sounded the same), but the playability is nearly as good as an electric. Light and super fast for blues playing. It takes a little lighter touch with the pick (Primetone .88) on chords, but otherwise I actually really like the 10s. I am going to start keeping one of my acoustics strung up with them from now on.

Hi abn…

Changing tuning from standard to alternate tunings and back is more stressful on strings than normal playing and the occasional venture into Dropped D.

A suggestion for the future if you are going to continue alternate tuning often, is to wrap more windings around the tuner shaft, in fact winding the strings most of the way down the shaft.

It takes longer, but if they are breaking at the head stock, this will buffer them from being stressed repeatedly in a very narrow point as they come off the shaft. This increases the break angle of the string, and keeps it further from the hole in the shaft which can cut strings.[/I] Just winding them down the shaft reduces the stress of moving up/down repeatedly (like bending paper clips till they weaken and break). I don't know the scientific reason…but it works. I taught fingerstyle for 40 years, and had students who were experiencing, and when they began doing 'deeper' windings, it stopped the breakage all together (when strings were breaking at the shaft).

David Wilcox (alternate tuner who may go through half-dozen or more retuning of a single guitar in his live concerts) first mentioned this in a mid-1990s teaching video titled "Secrets of Open Tuning and Song Accompaniment". It can still be 'purchased' at Homespun.com and is worth the adventure of just witnessing an alternate tuner with an amazing sense of humor and out-o-this-world skills. I didn't buy his explanations (he's not a scientist), but I tried it and it worked. I started following David's advice and have not broken a string since 2005. There is a picture of the way I now string my guitars…(and have for 20 years) below.

The only strings I used to break were either the 3rd or 2nd and it was always at the tuning peg, and always when returning to standard tuning after several trips and practice sessions in alternate tunings.

I also recommend that if you are going to continue exploring all those tunings on any guitar, consider experimenting with .012 string weights (or .013 and have the setup adjusted if needed). And confine yourself to doing this on a single guitar (as you mentioned).

It will approximate normal tension of .011 or .012 sets in standard tuning when drop tuned.

Have fun exploring!

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

...A suggestion for the future if you are going to continue alternate tuning often, is to wrap more windings around the tuner shaft, in fact winding the strings most of the way down the shaft.

It takes longer, but if they are breaking at the head stock this will buffer them from being stressed repeatedly in a very narrow point as they come off the shaft. This increases the break angle of the string, and keeps it further from the hole in the shaft which can cut strings. Just winding them down the shaft reduces the stress of moving up/down repeatedly (like bending paper clips till they weaken and break). I don't know the scientific reason - but it works...

I've been doing it this way for the last 40+ years with all my guitars (I only use standard tuning and nothing lighter than 12's): never broken a string at the headstock since - haven't broken a string at all in probably 35 years or so (BTW that includes 12-string G-octaves) and to my ears it gives a "tighter," more articulate tone...

[abn556]

Thanks for the info on adding wraps to the tuner post. I will definitely do that on the next string change. I am going to pick a couple of guitars and use them in alt tuning. The 000-18 sounds really good in DADGAD. I am thinking of using the Larrivee OM-40R for CGCFCE tuning.

As for the strings I was going to consolidate acoustic strings on the D’addario XS strings in 12-53. They have a bulk box set that’s around $10 a set. I have been playing all different brands, types, and sizes of strings lately. Now that I have 5 acoustics plus my wife’s 3, I need to buy in bulk and settle on one string for a while.

[rstaight]

My go to set for acoustic is .011 to .052. On the jumbo it is .012 to .056.

I tried 10's about 5 years ago but took them off after a couple of days. They were just to bright for my taste. But they weren't Monel. I may give those a try.

[abn556]

Originally Posted by rstaight

My go to set for acoustic is .011 to .052. On the jumbo it is .012 to .056.



I tried 10's about 5 years ago but took them off after a couple of days. They were just to bright for my taste. But they weren't Monel. I may give those a try.

I like the 11-52s as well. I had a bunch of 11-52s here for a while, but we’ve pretty much gone through them. To me, there is not a whole lot of difference between the feel of 12-53s and 11-52s.

The 10-47s were a mistake on my part, but they are not bad - at least on the 000-15m. That guitar likes Monel strings.

[Corndog]

Originally Posted by abn556

I am going to pick a couple of guitars and use them in alt tuning. The 000-18 sounds really good in DADGAD. I am thinking of using the Larrivee OM-40R for CGCFCE tuning.

That's what I like to do. I keep my Larrivee in DADGAD. I keep my Little Martin in CGCFCE as I don't otherwise play that guitar and I rarely play in that tuning.

If switching from DADGAD to std often, and playing alone, try tuning all the notes sharp in DADGAD. D#A#D#G#A#D#. This requires three strings to go flat and three to go sharp, and it is within a pound or so of tension with std tuning.
Easy on the strings, easy on the neck.

I don't like the sound of extra light (10s) with dropped tunings and I don't care for the feel of them generally as I like more resistance at my fingers. It helps me play more accurately. I used 12s on everything.

[abn556]

Originally Posted by Corndog

That's what I like to do. I keep my Larrivee in DADGAD. I keep my Little Martin in CGCFCE as I don't otherwise play that guitar and I rarely play in that tuning.

If switching from DADGAD to std often, and playing alone, try tuning all the notes sharp in DADGAD. D#A#D#G#A#D#. This requires three strings to go flat and three to go sharp, and it is within a pound or so of tension with std tuning.
Easy on the strings, easy on the neck.

I don't like the sound of extra light (10s) with dropped tunings and I don't care for the feel of them generally as I like more resistance at my fingers. It helps me play more accurately. I used 12s on everything.

I find DADGAD to be very similar to CGCFCE. Little difference on the top end strings. Other than that, it just down to C from D.

My 000-18 is in DADGAD now using XS 11-52s. 12s would probably sound a little better.