#31
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I usually test run the various reverbs I have. Much is tune and raw recording dependent.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#32
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FYI-I'm going to delete that from my Soundcloud account since any interested parties have heard it by now. That's heads and tails better than THD. Well done.
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#33
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This looks great - I have got a copy but have struggled to get on top of dynamic EQ.. I struggle to understand why one might lift a frequency and then squash it with compression for example? (I get why one might cut a frequency and then squash it) If I find the problem areas by using standard EQ with +12db push and narrow Q as you suggested previously, do I then translate these across to the F6 and add a cut there?
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Burguet AC-007 (2003 - Cedar/Rosewood) Webber OM (2009 - Sitka/Sapele) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8A...2TVEhWes2Djrig |
#34
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Thanks - THD is a really tough piece to play cleanly and was patently a bad choice to demo mics!
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Burguet AC-007 (2003 - Cedar/Rosewood) Webber OM (2009 - Sitka/Sapele) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8A...2TVEhWes2Djrig |
#35
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RE: Celandine Clip
Aloha Peter,
RE: The new "Celandine" clip. Through my speakers, it's lower-mid overdrive central - even on the first note?!? Buzzes on the bass notes all over the place w/ distortion. Unlistenable really. As usual, your playing & interpretation are both excellent. But the recording? Man, Too much overkill in lower mid notes. Why? Several of your clips have been analyzed at AGF with great suggestions & solutions from the guys, including reworking the raw tracks to workable through various editing tools & plug-in's. Yet, your mid-range problems have continued, no matter the song. Why is that? Can you not hear those issues on your system before you share the clips? Is it your guitar? What? Lower Mid-range issues seem to plague so many newbie player/recordists here. Any opinions as to why that is? Peter, you should start over & record a new clip. Doug's suggestion seems to ring the truest: stop all the playing around with plug-in's & electronic fixes until you have mastered them. Keep it simple with a light hand on the EQ (by subtraction only) & reverb (barely audible, if any - the brand doesn't matter here), compression (same), etc. Just try to get a clean, clear track without putting so much into editing. Play with your mic placement some more or add treatment to your space. And listen for those lower-mid's wolf notes & cure them before you share them. They are so obvious. Record the "Celandine" track again, Peter. Share the raw track with us please. Good Luck. alohachris Last edited by alohachris; 09-21-2020 at 10:43 AM. |
#36
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When you are cleaning up it is often all about compromise. In this, the bypass control is your friend. Use it to A/B your EQ work against the original signal, keeping in mind the Hippocratic oath: "First do no harm." You can bang away at a problem and finally sit back and say, "Wow, that's better!" Then you hit bypass and realize you liked some of the characteristics of the sound better before you started working. Just go back and ease out of your tweaks in the area you like better when you listen in bypass a little bit and see if that doesn't strike a better compromise. There are also EQ programs that offer a couple of temporary EQ memories for instant A/B. You can get something you like, store it, and then tweak further. If you end up not liking the newer results, just call up the stored memory. Bob
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"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' " Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website) |
#37
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Hi Chris Thanks for the input. I don’t hear any lower mid distortion or buzz on my system at all - that’s very strange. I’d be interested if anybody else hears that? I get a nice clean warm tone with plenty of clarity. Did you hear the same issue on the first raw file of the handing down? Previously I don’t recall this being an issue of any note either. I am definitely on the same page re less is more, and this last recording of Celandine was almost a raw file and had only subtractive EQ and a small amount of reverb - nothing else (so little point in re-recording) Here is a fairly raw file - a little dynamic EQ and reverb only. Is this any better to your ears?
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Burguet AC-007 (2003 - Cedar/Rosewood) Webber OM (2009 - Sitka/Sapele) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8A...2TVEhWes2Djrig Last edited by Wrighty; 09-21-2020 at 02:55 PM. |
#38
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Burguet AC-007 (2003 - Cedar/Rosewood) Webber OM (2009 - Sitka/Sapele) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8A...2TVEhWes2Djrig |
#39
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Play around with mike spacing and distance. Sometimes a less correlated waveform between R and L channels can open up the sound. Also on reverbs some bring out more of the overtones (higher frequencies) than others and that can give more air and openness to the sound.
__________________
Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#40
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Aloha Peter
Aloha Peter,
Thank you for your response. I just listened to your most recent, improved "Celandine" clip (a good piece for hearing guitar recording quality, IMO) on my much better, separate system here & ran it through my Adams A7X monitors. Yes, it is better in terms of the amount of intense lower range distortion & clarity in the high's, but the lower mid issues are still there. It seems particularly acute on the first note attack (probably using a thumbpick?). There is distortion in the lower mid's in many sections of the track. It's not my system because I've been listening to Derek's recordings all morning without issues. Your playing & other frequencies on the track are pristine. But the distortions, no matter how subtle, kill the beauty of that. Maybe roll off the lower mid's more? Or even lower the levels a tad. I am not playing it at a very high amplitude. Just offerring feedback on what I hear. Again, your playing is beautiful. alohachris PS: As a former luthier I have to ask. It sounds almost like a guitar top brace is slightly loose (common) that distorts in the lower freq's when the attack is harder. Humor me. Please tap the guitar top (with the guitar not resting on surface, holding it at the heel) with your thumb & listen for any distortions or strange resonances. Just for fun. -alohachris- Last edited by alohachris; 09-21-2020 at 03:34 PM. |
#41
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New mics - Line Audio CM4
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Thank you for listening - I appreciate the honest feedback and will listen again to try to hear what I am obviously missing (no thumpick, just nail) I will do as you suggest on levels - this was about -6db before the maximiser was used to adjust to -14 LUFS (Ozone) Can you help me with where lower mids begin and end in frequency terms? I will also check the guitar as you suggest - I can also re-record Celandine using my Webber to see what you hear there and if the issue is guitar rather than recording. Have a good evening..
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Burguet AC-007 (2003 - Cedar/Rosewood) Webber OM (2009 - Sitka/Sapele) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8A...2TVEhWes2Djrig |
#42
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Frequency issues on Celandine
Aloha Peter,
In response to your question, the distortion issues seem to occur most frequently at between 83 Hz (low E) through 200 Hz - basically the bottom three open wound strings. Bottom open A at 110 Hz is a problem. And it occurs most often at the first attack & beginning (on the bass key note(s) of a phrase or section. This noticeable distortion/almost buzz can't be hidden by the clarity of the high's, which are really good. You might want to experiment again w/ the low pass filter & dialing in more subtractive EQ on the lower to mid frequencies before moving to other fixes. Save & compare as Bob suggests, so you don't lose any of the "good" changes. I just listened again on my pretty good system, at a low level, & still hear it (just to check if it's my aging ears at different times of the day - Ha!). Like the helicopter in "Goodfella's," it's still there. Man, you're so close & much improved, Peter. Hope you can tame those. Soon, "Celandine" will be perfect! You have a good night too, my talented friend. alohachris Last edited by alohachris; 09-21-2020 at 07:48 PM. |
#43
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Poking around the Line Audio website as relating to the CM4 mic reminded me very much of watching all the folks who raved about the inexpensive Naiant Audio microphones several years back. At the time Naiant featured entry into high quality inexpensive mics based on commercially available back-charged electret capsules.
Naiant has progressed a whole bunch in the microphone development field and now offer a whole range of specialty mics: https://naiant.com/studio-electronic...le-microphone/ The field of high quality SDCs based on back-charged electret capsules has moved steadily forward, with manufacturers such as RODE entering the market for these mics with their M3 back-charged electret mic or the wide range of offerings from DPA. It's good to see yet another manufacturer producing a small form factor SDC based on this technology, which used to be looked down on by serious recordists. There are obviously some very high end versions of these mics, so I'm not disparaging them in any way. Last edited by Rudy4; 09-21-2020 at 08:14 PM. |
#44
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Rumor (on Gearslutz) has it that the capsules in the Line Audio and 3U Audio mics also appear in much more expensive brands. Nobody will spill the beans, though. Of course there's more to a mic than a capsule but we all know that cost vs price can be deceiving.
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#45
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Exactly. When there was all the buzz about the Niant (MH-1s?) a lot of users reported they could be really variable as far as circuitry noise. It's a very strong possibility that the capsules themselves are cherry-picked to select the ones that are acceptable in a higher-end product. I don't know that for a fact, but I have a pretty good understanding of where "self-noise" comes from in a mic. The other possibility is they come from the manufacturer already pre-screened, or even manufactured to a higher level for a manufacturer such as DPA. A mic that retails for less than $150 probably doesn't have that level of clout with capsule manufacturers. |