Passive Under saddle vs K and K mini

[guitarwebguy]

For a different twist, you might try a Trance Amulet, I had one in one of guitars for several years and really liked it, but I’d also recommend some sort of EQ box as well ....

[guitaniac]

Regarding the possible use of the K&K Pure Mini, I totally agree with steelvibe's advice to use a soundhole cover. I spent a few years running fairly loud sound in a big venue with (very bassy) 18" speaker cabs. One of our favorite players used a Pure Mini-equipped guitar with a soundhole cover. We rarely had feedback issues with him, but I hasten to add that he used a flatpick with a strong strumming and picking attack.

Another player who had a very light playing attack would invariably have feedback problems, or problems attaining a sufficient level, when he used his beautiful old frap-equipped Mossman guitar. (Frap is an early forerunner of today's soundboard pickups. He used it with a K&K preamp.) On the other hand, I could always get a sufficient level on this particular player when he used his soundhole mag-equipped guitar.

I'm just pointing out here that volume level needs, and playing style, are important factors when determining if a soundboard pickup is a viable option in your case. If a Baggs M80 is giving you feedback problems, you'll need to make some kind of changes for a Pure Mini to work. From steelvibe's comment, its apparent that the TWA has some tools to help deal with feedback. Learning to use those tools (and possibly a soundhole cover also) are part of the challenge of getting feedback-free sound in a loud situation.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Regarding the possible use of the K&K Pure Mini, I totally agree with steelvibe's advice to use a soundhole cover. I spent a few years running fairly loud sound in a big venue with (very bassy) 18" speaker cabs. One of our favorite players used a Pure Mini-equipped guitar with a soundhole cover. We rarely had feedback issues with him, but I hasten to add that he used a flatpick with a strong strumming and picking attack.

Another player who had a very light playing attack would invariably have feedback problems, or problems attaining a sufficient level, when he used his beautiful old frap-equipped Mossman guitar. (Frap is an early forerunner of today's soundboard pickups. He used it with a K&K preamp.) On the other hand, I could always get a sufficient level on this particular player when he used his soundhole mag-equipped guitar.

I'm just pointing out here that volume level needs, and playing style, are important factors when determining if a soundboard pickup is a viable option in your case. If a Baggs M80 is giving you feedback problems, you'll need to make some kind of changes for a Pure Mini to work. From steelvibe's comment, its apparent that the TWA has some tools to help deal with feedback. Learning to use those tools (and possibly a soundhole cover also) are part of the challenge of getting feedback-free sound in a loud situation.

Hi g-nac

I have 4 K&K dual source equipped guitars, and in one venue I play I often use the sound hole cover, because they pump the subs and will not put a hi-pass (bass cut) filter on anything, which means my guitar will start howling if a sound tech raises the volume. My position on stage with the house band is about 6 feet from one of the subs.

Feedback buster or LuteHole cover solves it every time, and it doesn't change the sound in the room enough to matter. Still sounds woody and full.

When we do solo gigs I often have my UltraSound AG-50 (DS4) amp elevated about 30" off the floor and 4-5 feet behind me without issues - and I sing and play through it.

I've never gotten tone with an under saddle piezo that I get with a SBT (SoundBoard Transducer).

[guitaniac]

Larry,

For my taste, David Enke's Open To Sound Source UST is more pleasing than any of the SBTs which I've tried (Pure Mini, B-Band AST and iBeam). Then again, David has some secret design which is less quacky, more top-responsive and more articulate than any of the other USTs which I've tried, including the Headway, Highlander, DTAR & Fishman co-axial USTs. Truth be told, I'm not hearing any quack at all with live sound. The OTSS UST is very unUST-like in that respect.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by guitarwebguy

For a different twist, you might try a Trance Amulet, I had one in one of guitars for several years and really liked it, but I’d also recommend some sort of EQ box as well ....

+1 Trance Amulet

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Larry,

For my taste, David Enke's Open To Sound Source UST is more pleasing than any of the SBTs which I've tried (Pure Mini, B-Band AST and iBeam). Then again, David has some secret design which is less quacky, more top-responsive and more articulate than any of the other USTs which I've tried, including the Headway, Highlander, DTAR & Fishman co-axial USTs. Truth be told, I'm not hearing any quack at all with live sound. The OTSS UST is very unUST-like in that respect.

HI g-niac

That's a new one to me. I see Larry Pattis listed as a user (he's been a member of the forum for years), and have sent him a question about said UST pickups. Though he is listed by David Enke's Open To Sound Source UST's site, Larry's site makes no mention of them, but does list Pickup The World (a variant of SBT which fixes to braces).

He's pretty exploratory and like many of us has had multiple pickups in many guitars over the years.

Since you like them, do you run it with a preamp (either internal or external)?

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Larry,

For my taste, David Enke's Open To Sound Source UST is more pleasing than any of the SBTs which I've tried (Pure Mini, B-Band AST and iBeam). Then again, David has some secret design which is less quacky, more top-responsive and more articulate than any of the other USTs which I've tried, including the Headway, Highlander, DTAR & Fishman co-axial USTs. Truth be told, I'm not hearing any quack at all with live sound. The OTSS UST is very unUST-like in that respect.

I was just looking at their site. I really liked the PUTW 54 tonally, it just didn't function dependably. I'd definitely consider using his UST & SBT combo if it was more stable and he had a convenient preamp, such as the defunct Powerplug.

His website doesn't really work or list his available products but it looks like the line is expanding.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

HI g-niac

That's a new one to me. I see Larry Pattis listed as a user (he's been a member of the forum for years), and have sent him a question about said UST pickups. Though he is listed by David Enke's Open To Sound Source UST's site, Larry's site makes no mention of them, but does list Pickup The World (a variant of SBT which fixes to braces).

He's pretty exploratory and like many of us has had multiple pickups in many guitars over the years.

Since you like them, do you run it with a preamp (either internal or external)?

Open To Source Sensors is David Enke's new company. He's no longer with PUTW.

You can use the OTSS UST with an outboard preamp, but I currently have one wired to a Matrix Infinitety strap-jack preamp which I had lying around. With this one I have the Matrix's wheel tone control set on the most trebly setting. but still have to use my Zoom A3 preamp to cut a little bass (-3db at 80Hz, -3db at 160Hz) and add a little presence (+2 db at 6KHz, +4 at 12KHz). The guitar itself is a pretty bassy rosewood/spruce medium jumbo.


The other OTSS UST which I have has replaced the Element UST in my anniversary edition Crafter (rosewood/spruce GA). It was very easy to install as David wired a 2.5mm plug to it so that I could plug it right into the Baggs "barn door" style onboard preamp. The setup works pretty well, except that I have to roll off about 5db on the bass EQ slider. In any event, I don't need an outboard preamp for more sophisticated tone adjustments. The four onboard EQ sliders work well enough.

I used the Crafter (direct to mixer) at last night's gig. Though the venue was very noisy, I like what I can hear from the video recording.
https://youtu.be/jJzNCkjizdY

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Open To Source Sensors is David Enke's new company. He's no longer with PUTW.

You can use the OTSS UST with an outboard preamp, but I currently have one wired to a Matrix Infinitety strap-jack preamp which I had lying around. With this one I have the Matrix's wheel tone control set on the most trebly setting. but still have to use my Zoom A3 preamp to cut a little bass (-3db at 80Hz, -3db at 160Hz) and add a little presence (+2 db at 6KHz, +4 at 12KHz). The guitar itself is a pretty bassy rosewood/spruce medium jumbo.


The other OTSS UST which I have has replaced the Element UST in my anniversary edition Crafter (rosewood/spruce GA). It was very easy to install as David wired a 2.5mm plug to it so that I could plug it right into the Baggs "barn door" style onboard preamp. The setup works pretty well, except that I have to roll off about 5db on the bass EQ slider. In any event, I don't need an outboard preamp for more sophisticated tone adjustments. The four onboard EQ sliders work well enough.

I used the Crafter (direct to mixer) at last night's gig. Though the venue was very noisy, I like what I can hear from the video recording.
https://youtu.be/jJzNCkjizdY

Hi g-niac

I messaged Larry Pattis and he is using the OTSS in conjunction with a ToneDexter now (I gathered exclusively).

He previously used the Highlander I-P1 pickup/pre, but has gone with the ToneDexter as it eliminates the need for internal preamp.

Were I to re-equip (I'm now 70 yrs old and not changing gear at this point) I'd go with a simple pickup and the ToneDexter for everything.

My K&K dual source equipped guitars with either my Raven PMB or DTAR Solstice are more than adequate to the task.

We live in an amazing age of choices, and multiple paths to get great live sound which reflects the quality and sensitivity of our acoustic instruments with relative ease.