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  #31  
Old 09-12-2016, 09:45 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
I got the problems in Sonar ironed out. When all I had was two mono files, the mixer had 9 level controls opened up in the mixer, which was very confusing, as they all had to be set just right. One of the other Sonar users suggested that I close the Pro Channel box, and delete the busses I didn't need. This cleaned up the mixer very well and now I should be able to export mixes at decent volumes. That was definitely a problem.
How can you possibly have nine level controls in your DAW during either (i) tracking or (ii) mixing?
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  #32  
Old 09-12-2016, 09:51 PM
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It sounds like you are using some kind of sonar preset that sets up effects and busses? That kind of stuff is almost always useless. If you cant figure out how to just start out clean and simple in donar, why not just use audition? Its an excellent piece of software. Sonar just seems to be adding obstacles for you.
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  #33  
Old 09-12-2016, 09:53 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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How can you possibly have nine level controls in your DAW during either (i) tracking or (ii) mixing?
That's what they have when you open it up. A simple two track recording in Sonar should be a breeze to mix, but when you open up their mixer, I counted them, you have 9 level controls you have to deal with. This is why I was having so many problems exporting files with decent levels. It was brought to my attention that my mixes were very low levels and I need to find the problem. I traced the problem down to Sonar's default mixer. I got in there and found some of the level controls set to very low settings. Once I reset them or eliminated the buss, the problem went away and I had decent levels.
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  #34  
Old 09-12-2016, 09:58 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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That's what they have when you open it up. A simple two track recording in Sonar should be a breeze to mix, but when you open up their mixer, I counted them, you have 9 level controls you have to deal with. This is why I was having so many problems exporting files with decent levels. It was brought to my attention that my mixes were very low levels and I need to find the problem. I traced the problem down to Sonar's default mixer. I got in there and found some of the level controls set to very low settings. Once I reset them or eliminated the buss, the problem went away and I had decent levels.
Find a way to remove nearly all of those "level controls". For recording one mono track you only need one level control in your DAW, or two if you are monitoring while recording. You only need two level controls when mixing (track and master output) (I'm not counting optional plugin controls).
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  #35  
Old 09-12-2016, 10:04 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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It sounds like you are using some kind of sonar preset that sets up effects and busses? That kind of stuff is almost always useless. If you cant figure out how to just start out clean and simple in donar, why not just use audition? Its an excellent piece of software. Sonar just seems to be adding obstacles for you.

Well that's what I've already done. I'm now using Audition CS6 for my multi-track audio recordings and mixing. I was just about to give up on Sonar when one of the users suggested I delete the extra busses.

You're exactly right, the default mixer settings are not what I need. I may be able to change them, but Audition is a better program for audio. It's more straight forward, simple to use, has great editing features, and I get really good results with it. Sonar is important to me because of it's midi recording capabilities. Audition doesn't do midi.

Audition had a nice surprise for me the other day. Years ago I bought the Native Instrument's Guitar Rig 5 Pro program for use in Sonar. It's a VST program that also works in Audition...I didn't know that !! So now I have tons of effects in Audition !!
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  #36  
Old 09-12-2016, 10:08 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
Find a way to remove nearly all of those "level controls". For recording one mono track you only need one level control in your DAW, or two if you are monitoring while recording. You only need two level controls when mixing (track and master output) (I'm not counting optional plugin controls).
I've got it figured out now, but working in Audition makes more sense to me. I like the editing features in Audition better. It seems to be a much more stable program too.
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  #37  
Old 09-13-2016, 07:47 AM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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I've got it figured out now, but working in Audition makes more sense to me. I like the editing features in Audition better. It seems to be a much more stable program too.
Gosh...we seem to be throwing the baby out with the bath water Audition may well be the right application for you. It's one of the few I haven't worked with so I'll take everyone's word on. Perhaps it is amore simplistic program and that of course can be an advantage. Still and that said Sonar is by no means and in any Universe unstable.

It appears (and of course appearances can be deceiving on a web form) that you've not yet come to grips with the basics of routing and signal flow. Where with each passing day all DAW's seem to streamline their GUI mixer section no one in the history of DAW's has had a cleaner, clearer routing scheme than Pro Tools. Sonar is the absolute closest to Pro Tools in terms of simplicity in routing I've encountered. Honestly and in the spirit of helping it's virtually impossible to get consistently great audio from a home recording environment while simultaneously ignoring the fundamentals. I'm utterly convinced that armed with a little up-front signal flow expertise Sonar won't present itself to you as unstable

Last edited by Joseph Hanna; 09-13-2016 at 08:01 AM.
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  #38  
Old 09-13-2016, 08:09 AM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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I've used Sonar enough to know it can crash and lock up on occasion. It's a bit clunky compared to Audition. It's much easier for me to edit a song in Audition. Exporting a file is also much easier in Audition...in Sonar you have to jump thru a bunch of hoops to export a track. Burning a cd in Audition is very simple. Here again, in Sonar, all things must be right if you want a usable file, MP3 or CD. There in was my problem with Sonar,,, the mixer had one level meter that wasn't set just right and I ended up with a very quiet recording.

It just easier to work in Audition. Not so many hoops and headaches.
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  #39  
Old 09-13-2016, 08:10 AM
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Get the project settings you want and save it as the default project template.

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentati...indings.2.html
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  #40  
Old 09-13-2016, 08:28 AM
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Some thoughts: Most major DAW's allow you to create your own custom user session/project ... templates, including Sonar (which also has individual track templates)

This is a procedure that anyone who will be doing any amount of recording will find invaluable, especially anyone who wants a quick "open hit record" work flow to optimize creativity

As has been pointed out also as far as self Mastering. While it can be useful in some circumstances for things like posting to streaming services where there is not really any commercial intention .

For commercial purposes while self mastering is certainly being done (with widely varying results) it does however defeat one significant aspect of traditional mastering which is an objective fresh set of ears and experience specific to mastering.

So for self-mastering it appears Sonar ships with some Mastering tools bundled personally I would focus on these.

As general rule, the terms "Audio Mastering" and "Automatic" are a contradiction in terms. One of the major focal points and reason for mastering, is to taylor the specific settings of the tools used, to address the needs of the specific piece of music being mastered. Not to set the mastering tools parameters to a predetermined algorithm. In practical terms no accurate pre determined algorithm can exist for any individual specific piece of music, let alone one that exists for any or all individual pieces of music
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Last edited by KevWind; 09-13-2016 at 08:51 AM.
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  #41  
Old 09-13-2016, 09:04 AM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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While I totally agree with Kev and Ric concerning templates (where would I be without templates) the underlying problem still would remain. That is to say without first actually learning audio gain staging and audio routing, templates may indeed further the apparent mind set that implies "as long as the software takes care of it I don't need to learn about it". I'm certainly not putting words into anyone's mouth but from afar that seems to be the case here.

Once a firm grasp of basic audio is achieved any conveniences software may provide is icing on the cake. That of course would include templates.
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  #42  
Old 09-13-2016, 10:34 AM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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Regarding templates in Sonar...yes they are available. Do I want to take the time to set them up ?? No I shouldn't have to. The default mixer in Audition is just what I want, no setting up required. That's the main problem with Sonar, there's sooo many options, so many settings, that you spend all your energy setting up settings that are all over the place, and they all must be set just right or you don't get a usable recording. In Audition it's just click and go.

Regarding algorithms in the AAMS software. In the full version, you have 200 algorithms to choose from. The include basic settings for many genre's of music, such as classical, country, pop, rock, folk, the list goes on and on.

This does give me a fresh set of ears...it adds EQ, Compression and a limiter, that somebody else determined. So is it answer to all my prayers ?? No, some of the mastering tests I did sounded off and I wouldn't use them. But others sounded great. So what I'll say about it is, when it works good, it works great, when it doesn't work right, it doesn't sound good. Some of the time it is helpful, and other times it's not. But it is a very interesting concept to me. A BIG DISCLAIMER, I've only had this software a couple of days, so I haven't learned all the ins and outs about it yet. There's lot's to learn, lots of video's to watch, lots of settings......so it's way too soon for me to give it a thorough review.
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  #43  
Old 09-13-2016, 10:47 AM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
Regarding templates in Sonar...yes they are available. Do I want to take the time to set them up ?? No I shouldn't have to. The default mixer in Audition is just what I want, no setting up required. That's the main problem with Sonar, there's sooo many options, so many settings, that you spend all your energy setting up settings that are all over the place, and they all must be set just right or you don't get a usable recording. In Audition it's just click and go.

Regarding algorithms in the AAMS software. In the full version, you have 200 algorithms to choose from. The include basic settings for many genre's of music, such as classical, country, pop, rock, folk, the list goes on and on.

This does give me a fresh set of ears...it adds EQ, Compression and a limiter, that somebody else determined. So is it answer to all my prayers ?? No, some of the mastering tests I did sounded off and I wouldn't use them. But others sounded great. So what I'll say about it is, when it works good, it works great, when it doesn't work right, it doesn't sound good. Some of the time it is helpful, and other times it's not. But it is a very interesting concept to me. A BIG DISCLAIMER, I've only had this software a couple of days, so I haven't learned all the ins and outs about it yet. There's lot's to learn, lots of video's to watch, lots of settings......so it's way too soon for me to give it a thorough review.
I can setup an 8 track template with aux returns and a master output in under 15 seconds. That doesn't strike me as time consuming.
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  #44  
Old 09-13-2016, 11:14 AM
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Lots of good advice given by various people which deserves careful consideration.
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  #45  
Old 09-13-2016, 12:44 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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I can setup an 8 track template with aux returns and a master output in under 15 seconds. That doesn't strike me as time consuming.

Believe me, dealing with Sonar is like driving down a street and you hit every red light. Audition is like driving down the same street and hitting every green light.
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