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  #31  
Old 01-13-2015, 10:43 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blumlein_Pair

Regards,

Ty Ford
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  #32  
Old 01-13-2015, 10:49 AM
Fran Guidry Fran Guidry is offline
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Interesting comment Fran. I wonder if Lomax would have used compression or eq of some sort if it were readily available? I guess that's one of the notions that crossed my mind when I saw the Amos Lee video. I guess the simple question of "what mic do you recommend" spins off into a lot of tangents (which I really love to ponder).

As to your question regarding whether I have access to video editing gear... well, yeah.... it's what I've done for a living for 28 years :-)

That's one of the reason's that I'm heading down this road. Trying to come up with a VERY rapidly deployable audio solution for a video set up. The area I live in is rapidly becoming a mecca for songwriters (google 30A Songwriters Festival) and I'm already seeing an impact on the local music scene. I'm really wanting to be equipped to document some of what is happening.

I do realize that in many ways, a single mic approach can be just as complex as any multi-track solution, and perhaps I'm a bit caught up in the nostalgia of it, but I really think there is a certain clarity (esoterically speaking) that is infused when this approach is taken. The more I read your website, and comments, the more it comes to me that the mic doesn't matter so much (after a certain point).

BTW Fran, really like your web site. Would have taken a lot longer to find that one if I hadn't posted here. That alone was worth the post.
I'm gratified that you find the Homebrewed Music blog interesting, thanks.

I agree that using a single mic is easily as challenging as using multiple sources. I'm also a fan of the solidity of a mono track as opposed to the "wider is better" approach that lots of folks seem to prefer.

Fran
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  #33  
Old 01-13-2015, 11:14 AM
Trevor B. Trevor B. is offline
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Thanks, Ty. So, not the same thing.
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  #34  
Old 01-13-2015, 11:55 AM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Just one question (that may betray my ignorance but here goes). By Blumlein are you referring to M/S mic placement and configurations? If so, I was under the impression that the mid mic had to be set to cardioid and only the side to figure-eight. If there's an explanation that won't bury me in technical terms I'd be very interested in reading it.
Blumlein is different from MS, it's the original stereo technique invented by Alan Blumlein. You can think of it as "XY with figure 8 mics".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blumlein_Pair
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  #35  
Old 01-13-2015, 12:10 PM
MarvinLee MarvinLee is offline
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I've always wondered something about the Blumlien approach to stereo mic'ing. Does the mic pattern make a difference as to whether the mics are aligned vertically or horizontally?

I've seen this close proximity mic positioning used both ways and always wondered.
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  #36  
Old 01-13-2015, 12:27 PM
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It should make a difference. Sounds on each side of the pattern come out of a different speaker, (more or less). So horizontally, you hear "left" and "right". Turn it vertically, and you'll be getting "up" in one speaker and "down" in the other. It'd be like turning your head sideways. There are people who use stereo patterns vertically for closing micing acoustic guitar, with the idea that you get stereo from the span across the body (low strings to high). But if you record an orchestra that way, I suspect it'd be pretty odd sounding, or at least different. You'd still get some space effect, I guess, but it wouldn't be "strings on the left, brass on the right", etc. It'd be "floor on the left and ceiling on the right" or something? Don't know, I've never tried it :-)
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  #37  
Old 01-13-2015, 12:31 PM
Trevor B. Trevor B. is offline
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Blumlein is different from MS, it's the original stereo technique invented by Alan Blumlein. You can think of it as "XY with figure 8 mics".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blumlein_Pair
Yes. I read the wikipedia article Ty linked and realized that it's a different approach. My confusion probably arose from seeing Blumlein's name in articles about M/S in conjunction with his efforts regarding stereo imaging more broadly.
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  #38  
Old 01-13-2015, 01:38 PM
MarvinLee MarvinLee is offline
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Now that you mention it Doug, the only place I can remember seeing the vertical alignment used has been close mic'ing instruments. Thanks for the clarification.

Didn't expect to learn so much just by asking, "which mic should I use?".

So... at this point, I am resolved to stick with the mic I have until I develop a bit more technique for single mic recording. I will stick with recording dry and applying any effects in post. I will find as many folks locally as I can that have suitable mics for this endeavor and see if I can persuade them to cut a video. And finally, decide what the best mic for doing this might be long term.

Who knows... I may end up at the beginning and just proceed with what I have on hand. Spend coin on the adventure of acquisition rather than equipment.

Either way, here is a list of mics from this thread that I will be investigating for single mic recording (in no particular order);

Miktek CV4
AT5040
AT 4080
Mojave MA-200

Someone commented in PM on this approach not working too well in handling a wide range of genre's. I totally agree with that assessment and guess I hadn't specified that this is really focused on singer/songwriters. As has been mentioned a couple of times so far, this is really going to be a LOT more about the performance than the technology. That does make me wonder something... if (after a sufficient level of quality is met) mic choice for a project such as this would seem to make it's own esoteric contribution to the acquisition, which mic has the most renown?

I'm guessing that's probably going to be something like a Nueman U47?

Or to put it another way.... as an artist, if you had the opportunity to record one of your best songs through a single mic, what mic would that be? What mic would make you "up your game"?
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  #39  
Old 01-13-2015, 02:03 PM
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Or to put it another way.... as an artist, if you had the opportunity to record one of your best songs through a single mic, what mic would that be? What mic would make you "up your game"?
I think now you're talking psychology (or marketing)? For sure, there's something about presentation that can affect an artist's performance, but possibly negatively, if it intimidates them. But a studios choice of gear can help instill confidence in customers. Client's might trust you more if you have Pro Tools, for example.

I think tho, it would depend on your artist's knowledge. Some would be impressed by knowing you're using some kind of classic. Others might be impressed that you're using something unusual - that you know enough to pick something they've never heard of that sounds great. Others might just be impressed if it's "big" :-) Check out the Manley Gold Stereo Reference mic - I have no idea how it sounds, but it would have to make people go "Wow!" If they're not impressed by the look, you can show them the price tag.

But usually when I record other people, they have no clue what mics I'm using, whether they're good or not, etc, all that counts is how it sounds on playback, which is more related to the performance and the skill of the engineer.
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  #40  
Old 01-13-2015, 02:44 PM
MarvinLee MarvinLee is offline
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Yes.... I am talking about the phycological factor.

Sound guys I've worked with in the past using boom poles, sennheiser shotguns with a blimp sometimes refer to it as the "mandingo factor" (no offense to anyone, but that's what they said!). It has to do with what happens to a persons focus when they see a large mic package looming.

Ultimately, you are correct Doug, it's all about what ends up recorded, but the process is part of accomplishing that.

I'm sure it seems like silly minutia, but even the little things make a difference in the end.
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  #41  
Old 01-13-2015, 03:44 PM
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Y
I'm sure it seems like silly minutia, but even the little things make a difference in the end.
So it will depend on your audience. If they know what a U47 is, they'll be impressed. If they've never heard of it, they will only know it looks fairly big and serious, but there are lots of mics that would look impressive. Unless they're educated about the gear, they'll probably be more reassured/impressed by brand names they know. You'd probably get a better conversation about this sort of thing over on gearslutz, where there may be more studio owners. You can probably find threads there on stuff like "what do you keep in your mic locker just to impress clients?"
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  #42  
Old 01-14-2015, 09:02 AM
Fran Guidry Fran Guidry is offline
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In line with people being impressed by the mics they know, we were recently burglarized and the perps cleaned out my collection of Shure hand held vocal mics but left behind the Schoeps.

Mr. Lee, I've been thinking more about "what would Alan Lomax use today" and it occurs to me that in addition to using a very high performance portable recorder he might very well use a stereo mic. Something like the Brauner VM1S http://www.soundpure.com/p/brauner-v...-microphone/92 would be an excellent candidate. One of the great tricks for miking a singer/instrumentalist is to use a pair of figure 8 mics to improve the separation between voice and instrument. The VM1S would deliver that capability and provide the psychological impact of something big, shiny, and expensive.

Check out SoundPure or one of the other high end gear pimps for some of the other options, ranging from around $500 or so and up: http://www.soundpure.com/c/stereo-mi...&page=2&show=0

Fran
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  #43  
Old 01-14-2015, 10:13 AM
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Or one could say they are just a pair of Beez Neez mics
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  #44  
Old 01-14-2015, 02:58 PM
Andy Howell Andy Howell is offline
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If you are still looking for a large condensor have a look at the Mojave 301 and 201 fets. Stunning value for money and to my mind very close to the U47.
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  #45  
Old 01-14-2015, 02:59 PM
MarvinLee MarvinLee is offline
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Andy, how do they compare to the Mojave MA200? Someone else mentioned this one to me and was pretty pleased with it.
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