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  #61  
Old 05-15-2014, 05:09 PM
Luke_ Luke_ is offline
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Both you guys are making sense, and I'm learning more and more.

I'm guna study up on ORTF.... Seem to be drawing a blank on its acronym...

Interface shows by wed next week I'm pumped. Guna do some stereo (LDC) on one and the pickup in the other track. See how that blends up.... Curious to see how it's position complements or takes away from the pickup.
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  #62  
Old 05-15-2014, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Luke_ View Post
Both you guys are making sense, and I'm learning more and more.

I'm guna study up on ORTF.... Seem to be drawing a blank on its acronym...

Interface shows by wed next week I'm pumped. Guna do some stereo (LDC) on one and the pickup in the other track. See how that blends up.... Curious to see how it's position complements or takes away from the pickup.
ORTF stands for Office de Radiodiffusion TÚlÚvision Franšaise. It was a technique developed as an alternative to X/Y. There are others, like NOS, Jecklin and so on. ORTF is 2 cardiod mics 17cm apart and 110 degrees in angle, roughly the distance between your ears, and sort of aimed forward and out, like our ears - so it was meant to create a more realistic stereo image. However, it was not developed as a technique for micing guitars from a few inches away! Guitarists are sort of abusing all these conventional techniques when we close mic. Nothing wrong with it, but the result is not quite what was originally intended. ORTF a few inches from a guitar just ends up being a sort of narrow "spaced pair", with each mic micing a spot on each side of the soundhole. ORTF tends to get people excited because it sounds cool and exotic. In practice, I don't think it's a great choice for guitar - tho you never know, you might love it. I used it for my first CD (because I thought it was cool and exotic :-) ), but - just my opinion - for me, spaced pairs, XY, or MS all work better for solo guitar. But it's all about experimenting until you find something you like.
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  #63  
Old 05-15-2014, 07:58 PM
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No doubt, I did some mono stuff tonight that I'm happy with. Stereo has to be more flexible. Uhh, the waiting..... Getting some solid stuff down with the current setup will gimme something to compare to
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  #64  
Old 05-15-2014, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Luke_ View Post
Both you guys are making sense, and I'm learning more and more.

I'm guna study up on ORTF.... Seem to be drawing a blank on its acronym...

Interface shows by wed next week I'm pumped. Guna do some stereo (LDC) on one and the pickup in the other track. See how that blends up.... Curious to see how it's position complements or takes away from the pickup.
So far I haven't liked my efforts with ORTF recording these Acoustics so far any way.
btw the Tracks are up in a playlist on SoundCloud now as promised.
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  #65  
Old 05-15-2014, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
If you record with two mikes (dual mono or stereo) and pan to center you will have mono with the disadvantages of two mikes (phase issues) without the advantages of two mikes (a stereo field - usually a fuller bodied sound and wider sound stage). You can pan a little towards center to narrow the image a bit if that is what you want, but generally that would apply to spaced pair recording rather than recording with closer together mikes (XY, ORTF) where the image is already more tightly focused.

Software is available that can handle right and left track stereo tracks separately or simply split the tracks apart. I find it easier edit a stereo track than two mono tracks. However whatever suits one's work flow usually makes the most sense.
Once again as I previously mentioned I centered the tracks to check for those very possible phase issues. I didn't hear anything wrong. I did some panning with the Quick mixes I just put up on another thread. and I think it all comes down to how things are going to fit in a full mix. I could give a hoot about a True Stereo Acoustic gtr. mix unless it is a sparse mix and I want a Stereo effect. I am just trying this for the first time. I do already know the info you and Doug are sharing but I think some are missing the point of this. i don't have a phase/invert button on my UR44 audio interface but have plug ins as you mentioned. I know about the 3-1 rule. I just want to see how much trouble I can get into because I have just started and will include LDC/SDC combo and M/S etc. experiments Any thing I do that ends up a real song and has Bass, drums,other guitar tracks perhaps Piano and surely Vocals I hope to make the Acoustic sound good and fit it properly. But thanks for the comments and your effort to share.
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  #66  
Old 05-15-2014, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by whitecloud View Post
So far I haven't liked my efforts with ORTF recording these Acoustics so far any way.
btw the Tracks are up in a playlist on SoundCloud now as promised.
How do I get to your sound cloud?
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  #67  
Old 05-15-2014, 08:59 PM
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Originally Posted by whitecloud View Post
Once again as I previously mentioned I centered the tracks to check for those very possible phase issues. I didn't hear anything wrong. I did some panning with the Quick mixes I just put up on another thread. and I think it all comes down to how things are going to fit in a full mix. I could give a hoot about a True Stereo Acoustic gtr. mix unless it is a sparse mix and I want a Stereo effect. I am just trying this for the first time. I do already know the info you and Doug are sharing but I think some are missing the point of this. i don't have a phase/invert button on my UR44 audio interface but have plug ins as you mentioned. I know about the 3-1 rule. I just want to see how much trouble I can get into because I have just started and will include LDC/SDC combo and M/S etc. experiments Any thing I do that ends up a real song and has Bass, drums,other guitar tracks perhaps Piano and surely Vocals I hope to make the Acoustic sound good and fit it properly. But thanks for the comments and your effort to share.
If the guitar is just part of a mix in with other instruments record it in mono - you will save yourself extra trouble and grief. P.S. 3-to1 rule does not apply to recording just the guitar by itself.
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  #68  
Old 05-15-2014, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by whitecloud View Post
. I do already know the info you and Doug are sharing but I think some are missing the point of this..
Probably. Something's not making sense, I think we're not understanding what you're doing. Perhaps when we hear it...
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  #69  
Old 05-15-2014, 09:36 PM
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How do I get to your sound cloud?
There is a separate thread here in the record forum self explanatory about the e70 clips just click on the link
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  #70  
Old 05-15-2014, 10:50 PM
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Probably. Something's not making sense, I think we're not understanding what you're doing. Perhaps when we hear it...
Here is a link:
https://soundcloud.com/mahuska/sets/...-pair-sdc-mics

The double track sounds good to me though it is a bit confusing which track is where location wise.
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Last edited by rick-slo; 05-15-2014 at 10:59 PM.
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  #71  
Old 05-15-2014, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Yeah, I found it. This isn't a sound I have much experience with but I would expect that I'd just use mono micing for double tracking like this. I don't see that there's much to be gained from stereo micing, but it's certainly an option if it gives you what you want. I might be tempted to use MS for this kind of thing, so that I had true mono tracks that could be panned at will, and still have the option to widen the tracks out to stereo if I wanted. But that could be off-base, since this isn't something I've spent any time on.
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Last edited by Doug Young; 05-15-2014 at 11:20 PM.
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  #72  
Old 05-15-2014, 11:05 PM
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Yeah, I found it. This isn't a sound I have much experience with but I would expect that I'd just use mono micing for double tracking like this. I don't see that there's much to be gained from stereo micing, but it's certainly an option if it gives you what you want. I might be tempted to use MS for this kind of thing, so that I had true mono tracks that could be panned at will, and still have the option to widen the tracks out to stereo if I wanted.
If I read it right (could be wrong) I think each track was stereo miked (four channels altogether), and the experimenting was how much to pan each track where - panned hard right and left in the clip posted.
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  #73  
Old 05-15-2014, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
If I read it right (could be wrong) I think each track was stereo miked (four channels altogether), and the experimenting was how much to pan each track where - panned hard right and left in the clip posted.
That's what it sounds like. And again - if it works, it works - but if I was setting out to do a recording like this, I'd be concerned that neither individual mic would give me what I want. Stereo often sounds good as a whole, even when each individual track doesn't. So in this case, I'd want to make sure I had good pannable mono tracks, and would just focus on getting a good mono sound.
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  #74  
Old 05-16-2014, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by whitecloud View Post
There is a separate thread here in the record forum self explanatory about the e70 clips just click on the link
I think they sound nice and clean, every setup has different characteristics. Nice demonstrated
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  #75  
Old 05-17-2014, 06:43 PM
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I did a quick session with the recorder. Again did a take on a song I'm familiar with. I'm playing my Alvarez with TR monels. Strings are kinda squeaky so disregard that, and the playing mistakes. I'm working on a very natural tone. Minimal EQ, little compressor, the last one has a little stereo enhancer. Just looking for some opinions on the thumb and low end from others perspective. Before it was over powering and drowning the melody. I've changed my single mic position to halfway between the sound hole and the 12th fret.... angled towards the 12th fret. The mic is 5-7inches away.

The song is the Berounka River Rak (3 takes) soundcloud
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