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  #16  
Old 08-23-2011, 10:40 AM
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Culling from every picture I was able to get from Ray, I sent him a list of my 10 favorite designs just to give him a reference point for when we start to think about aesthetics. The more I think about it, the more I may just give Ray free reign to take a concept and expand it to the fretboard, side markers, top, etc. Given how tasteful his aesthetic choices are, I think it would be fun to watch what he came up with.



















  #17  
Old 08-23-2011, 04:27 PM
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Thank you for sharing these pictures! These guitars are heartbreakingly beautiful.. love his design sense.
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Old 08-24-2011, 05:11 AM
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I love his rosette design.
Can anyone enlighten me the tonal qualities of Kraut and Kostal?
How are they similar and different from Somogyi?
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  #19  
Old 08-24-2011, 05:16 AM
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I find Kraut and Koastal's work both spectacular... you can tell they are both Somogyi current/former apprentices... love the detail. One thing you have to agree... Somogyi's training must be spectacular (and almost painful if you are the one learning LOL)
  #20  
Old 08-24-2011, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow View Post
I love his rosette design.
Can anyone enlighten me the tonal qualities of Kraut and Kostal?
How are they similar and different from Somogyi?
The thing that really drew me in about both Kraut and Matsuda (not so much with the one Kostal Mod D I played) was the musicality and resonance of the bass. It almost sounded like a big cello, and it was certainly distinct from anything I have ever played.

I asked Ervin at the show if this was part of the Somogyi sound and he said he thought very much so.

The mids and high end were, of course, beautiful and musical, but it was the bass that really struck me as other-worldly.
  #21  
Old 08-24-2011, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justonwo View Post
The thing that really drew me in about both Kraut and Matsuda (not so much with the one Kostal Mod D I played) was the musicality and resonance of the bass. It almost sounded like a big cello, and it was certainly distinct from anything I have ever played.

I asked Ervin at the show if this was part of the Somogyi sound and he said he thought very much so.

The mids and high end were, of course, beautiful and musical, but it was the bass that really struck me as other-worldly.
What about the neck feel and playability?
This is one BIG consideration for me too.
SO far the best playability I have tried is the Olson neck
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Ongoing:
1998 Yamaha APX6A
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Gone to a better place:
1999 Applause guitar (Given away)
1997 Taylor 912ce Cindy
2005 Jeff Yong JJ Euro/Macassar
2006 Doerr Legacy German/Madagascar
2009 Simon Fay OM Redwood/Koa
Omega GC on order
2011 Collings OM2H
2013 Collings 0-42G
  #22  
Old 08-24-2011, 07:54 PM
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Default i agree on the Mod D

I was playing the Mod/D with Justin the Saturday at Healdsburg and I had to go back to playing it over and over again. I would say it was one of my top three guitars at the show. If I didn't have so many things going on right now, I would put an order in right now.

The Mod/d played and sounded different than anything I have in my guitar collection. The bass responsive was very impressive and sounded like something Martin Simpson would have been slapping on.

I can't wait to watch your build Juston.
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  #23  
Old 08-24-2011, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow View Post
What about the neck feel and playability?
This is one BIG consideration for me too.
SO far the best playability I have tried is the Olson neck
Hmmm . . . you may be asking the wrong person on that one. My general feeling when it gets up into the luthier built category is, unless it's a really whacked-out profile, I'm usually pretty happy. Most seem to gravitate toward a medium C shape, which is more or less what I prefer.

I found most of the guitars at the show to be very playable, with the body shape being the biggest comfort factor that drew my attention. To be honest, all I noticed is that the guitar "felt right." The wedge made the larger body seem OM-like and the neck shape and setup were more or less right in my "ideal" range.

What is it about the Olson that makes it more playable than others?
  #24  
Old 08-25-2011, 07:02 AM
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for those not at Healdsburg, I think another luthier, Ebata, also is another Somogyi offbranch displaying similar qualities. Here is a modified D with video and pics, and review from Dream Guitars. They also have a jumbo, and recently sold an OM in the sold section. Great reviews!!
http://www.dreamguitars.com/detail/2383-ebata_d_42/
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  #25  
Old 08-25-2011, 07:12 AM
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I imagine that most know this goes without saying, but not all Somogyi apprentices are putting out the same sort/style/tone of work. As Juston has pointed out, there were significant differences between the Kraut Mod D and the Kostal Mod D.

Michi is constantly experimenting, so not only do his instruments sound different from other builders, but they often sound different from each other, because his bracing and build parameters are radically changing.

I've had an Ebata, and personally, didn't care for it. It didn't last long. That was my preference; these things are subjective, not objective.

All that to say that if you want a Somogyi, you need to save up and get a Somogyi. Buying a Kraut or a Kostal or an Ebata (or Matsuda, Beauregard, etc.) doesn't get you a Somogyi for 1/3 or 1/2 the price. It gets you a Kraut, Kostal, Somogyi, etc. And given that, you'd be wise to play each of these. They're taking things in very different directions.

Generalities are just that: general.

-Brett
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  #26  
Old 08-25-2011, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdm0509 View Post
I imagine that most know this goes without saying, but not all Somogyi apprentices are putting out the same sort/style/tone of work. As Juston has pointed out, there were significant differences between the Kraut Mod D and the Kostal Mod D.

Michi is constantly experimenting, so not only do his instruments sound different from other builders, but they often sound different from each other, because his bracing and build parameters are radically changing.

I've had an Ebata, and personally, didn't care for it. It didn't last long. That was my preference; these things are subjective, not objective.

All that to say that if you want a Somogyi, you need to save up and get a Somogyi. Buying a Kraut or a Kostal or an Ebata (or Matsuda, Beauregard, etc.) doesn't get you a Somogyi for 1/3 or 1/2 the price. It gets you a Kraut, Kostal, Somogyi, etc. And given that, you'd be wise to play each of these. They're taking things in very different directions.

Generalities are just that: general.

-Brett
Good point, Brett. I've only played one Matsuda and the three Krauts (all at this year's show) and I found them all to share the same resonant bass. Absolutely gorgeous voices on all three. The Kostal was really a different beast altogether. There was much more focus on the mid and upper range and the bass seemed more along the lines of what I am used to.

Even though playing a Somogyi is on my to-do list, I couldn't work up the nerve to ask Ervin this year. I'm not even sure if anyone was playing the two guitars he had on display, but the way they were displayed suggested "don't even think about it, Tire Kicker," which is obviously what I would have been doing. So I don't know how Somogyi-y all these guitars are, but they are certainly unique and beautiful sounding instruments, and they reflect an absolute mastery of guitar voicing (in my humble opinion). My guess is that one day someone will be asking how Krauty are those Eichelbuffer guitars?
  #27  
Old 08-25-2011, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justonwo View Post
The Kostal was really a different beast altogether.
How different is it compared to Kraut?
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Gone to a better place:
1999 Applause guitar (Given away)
1997 Taylor 912ce Cindy
2005 Jeff Yong JJ Euro/Macassar
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2009 Simon Fay OM Redwood/Koa
Omega GC on order
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  #28  
Old 08-25-2011, 10:18 AM
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Holy cow. His aesthetic take on things is just uniquely eye catching. Very much my style.
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  #29  
Old 05-09-2012, 02:45 PM
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Well, it looks like Ray will probably start working on my guitar sometime around early August, which is more or less right when he said he'd start. He's convinced me to move away from the Portuguese Cork/Italian Granite combo because of the limitations of those materials . . . go figure.

Things I'm a certain of:

1. Definitely a Mod D
2. Definitely a cutaway and Manzer wedge
3. Pinless bridge

Things I'm 90% certain of:

1. Multi-scale with a 25.25" to 26.00" spread, optimized for lights
2. Euro spruce top of some denomination
3. Most likely black ebony back and sides
4. Sound port

Things I am 50% certain of:

1. That it may debut (yes, before my grubby little hands have even mucked up the finish) at Woodstock

Things I have no idea about:

1. How it will look (other than the assumption that it will look awesome)
2. If it will smell more like cotton candy or cigar smoke
3. If we live in one of a (perhaps infinite) number of parallel universes
a. corollary - If #3 is true, is it then also possible that I am already playing my Kraut in another one of those universes?
b. corollary - If "a" is true, how do I get to that other universe?
  #30  
Old 05-11-2012, 12:04 PM
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So I asked Ray if he'd every thought about doing something crazy with a sound port like this from one of Matsuda's guitars. He seemed excited about the idea of doing his own interpretation of something like this, so I think we'll try to do something unusual with the sound port.

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