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Old 02-03-2019, 09:03 AM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
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Default Warbird lovers - a P-82 has been restored!



The P-82 started out as a design for an ultra-long-range escort fighter and eventually also became a radar interceptor. There have been hulks lying around but this is the first flight restoration.

It looks like a pair of P51s that were involved in a ground accident but the harder you look the more and more different from the P-51 it is. The armament was carried in the shared center wing section. Incidentally, the initial prototype wouldn't fly! Everyone thought you needed to gear one engine for contra-rotation of its prop to prevent torque problems. However, it turned out that the two engines' prop washes were cancelling out all of the lift of the shared middle wing, which was one quarter of the plane's wing area. After a month of screwing around they figured it out and went to matched engines and the plane was literally off!

Bob
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:37 AM
patrickgm60 patrickgm60 is offline
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Twin Mustang! Interesting. 2 cockpits. For long missions, 2 pilots could take shifts?

The two props are running counter (same as with the P-38, except inwards, rather than outwards.)
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Old 02-03-2019, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickgm60 View Post
Twin Mustang! Interesting. 2 cockpits. For long missions, 2 pilots could take shifts?

The two props are running counter (same as with the P-38, except inwards, rather than outwards.)
Yes, on the long-distance ones they had dual controls. The radar interceptor had a radar operator in the right cockpit with no flight controls. They started out counter-rotating and had to go to rotating the same way. You can see it in the startup procedure.


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Old 02-03-2019, 10:23 AM
unimogbert unimogbert is offline
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Very cool. Thanks Bob!
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:41 AM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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The claim in the post that pro-wash created problems with a lack of lift on the center section of the wing speaks volumes about the design of the P-38 .
The major issue with the P-38 was compressibility encountered in a dive . This had nothing to do with lift or the lack of it , but causing certain control surfaces becoming ineffective . It is claimed to be the result of the aircraft becoming transsonic in a dive . A modified Fowler Flap cured this by interrupting the airflow sufficiently to allow for uncompressed air to accumulate on the essential control surfaces . The P-38 , as speced by the British for testing lacked forced induction and counter rotating props and it still flew .
I love this stuff . Sectional dynamics ......
Wonderful to see one of these flying .

Last edited by Otterhound; 02-03-2019 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 02-03-2019, 12:06 PM
marty bradbury marty bradbury is offline
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Very nice! There is Boeing right down the road from me. I stated to my wife that I would like to take flying lessons. She stated that "I get in enough trouble on the ground!" Oh well. Thanks for posting.
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Old 02-03-2019, 12:18 PM
B Chas B Chas is offline
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Very cool, I love this stuff! My dad was a P-51 jockey in the European theater.
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Old 02-03-2019, 01:55 PM
patrickgm60 patrickgm60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
Yes, on the long-distance ones they had dual controls. The radar interceptor had a radar operator in the right cockpit with no flight controls. They started out counter-rotating and had to go to rotating the same way. You can see it in the startup procedure.
Bob
No, that's not what I see. The props are counter-rotating, but in the opposite direction of the P-38s'. I don't see how 2 engines that powerful could rotate in the same direction. Early experimentation may have had the props in the P-38 rotation configuration, but never rotating in the same direction.

(Cross-thread reference, for economy: Go Rams! )
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickgm60 View Post
No, that's not what I see. The props are counter-rotating, but in the opposite direction of the P-38s'. I don't see how 2 engines that powerful could rotate in the same direction. Early experimentation may have had the props in the P-38 rotation configuration, but never rotating in the same direction.
I see the same. I found a Wikipedia article that explains it. They started with the props counter-rotating ‘outwards’ and then swapped to ‘inwards’ after the initial failed trials.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nort...2_Twin_Mustang
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:34 PM
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My father-in-law worked at North American Aviation during this period.

Bob
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:54 PM
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Hats off to the folks who made this happen. Especially the guy who paid the $10MM restoration cost!

Also, in the end they still had counter rotating props, but both turned downward at the center (P-38 props turned outward).

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/q...a-loss-of-lift
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:08 AM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
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What were the powerplants?
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:48 AM
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They started with the Packard license-built Rolls Royce Merlin V-1650-23 and −25 engines and eventually moved to the Allison V-1710 143/145 pair when, after the war, licensing costs went up.

Bob
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